Curious about the roots of synods and the role of the church's teaching office? Prepare to journey back in time with John and Fr. Stephen Sanchez. Through a fascinating exploration of the first recorded synodal gatherings, such as the initial synod in Asia Minor in 170 AD and the gathering in Gaul in 177 AD, they explore how the Apostles, guided by the Holy Spirit, made key decisions, and you'll discover why it's vital for us to seek and educate ourselves in truth.
They navigate the centuries-long transformation of the Synod of Bishops. Together, they revisit the critical junctures of the Synod of Sardica in 342 and the Synodus Endomusa in Constantinople. You'll learn about the impact these decisions had on the gathering of bishops by ecclesiastical leaders, and gain insights into the history and significant reforms brought about by notable ecumenical councils such as the First and Second Vatican Council.
Lastly, they venture into the heart of Church hierarchy and teaching. With reverence for the Magisterium as educators, they examine the extraordinary and ordinary forms of Magisterium and the loyalty owed to each. You'll gain a deeper understanding of why obedience and assent in the face of disagreement are crucial, the role of theologians in exploring sensitive doctrinal areas, and the implications of the Second Vatican Council's instructions on the means of social communication. So, join us as we illuminate the tapestry of Catholic Church's history and teachings.
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
Curious about the roots of synods and the role of the church's teaching office? Prepare to journey back in time with John and Fr. Stephen Sanchez. Through a fascinating exploration of the first recorded synodal gatherings, such as the initial synod in Asia Minor in 170 AD and the gathering in Gaul in 177 AD, they explore how the Apostles, guided by the Holy Spirit, made key decisions, and you'll discover why it's vital for us to seek and educate ourselves in truth.
They navigate the centuries-long transformation of the Synod of Bishops. Together, they revisit the critical junctures of the Synod of Sardica in 342 and the Synodus Endomusa in Constantinople. You'll learn about the impact these decisions had on the gathering of bishops by ecclesiastical leaders, and gain insights into the history and significant reforms brought about by notable ecumenical councils such as the First and Second Vatican Council.
Lastly, they venture into the heart of Church hierarchy and teaching. With reverence for the Magisterium as educators, they examine the extraordinary and ordinary forms of Magisterium and the loyalty owed to each. You'll gain a deeper understanding of why obedience and assent in the face of disagreement are crucial, the role of theologians in exploring sensitive doctrinal areas, and the implications of the Second Vatican Council's instructions on the means of social communication. So, join us as we illuminate the tapestry of Catholic Church's history and teachings.
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
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Speaker 2:Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me and my friend, the Friar Father Steven Sanchez, a disc-housed Carmelite Priest. Good morning, father. Good morning. We took a short, unintended break because of technological difficulties at the castle, but we're back, we're back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was not happy for me either.
Speaker 2:It's amazing how much better your internet is in the middle of a major metropolitan area than it is out in the middle of nowhere, go figure.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So what are we doing? Where are we talking about this?
Speaker 1:Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about the whole idea of synods and also connected to that is the teaching office of the church, or the magisterium. I would rather not comment on hot button topics, because that's not the aim and or the reason for this podcast this podcast you talked me into. But looking at everything that's going on right now, the current confusion and the either the malicious or ignorant churning of emotions and this whole sentiment feeling of all hands on deck alarm, you know forces me to say a little something about synods and the teaching office of the bishops, especially that of the Roman Pontiff, or the Pope as we normal, usual Catholics would call him. So, as usual, my approach is one that examines the root of the topic at hand, and I would like to help people understand where all this synod stuff comes from.
Speaker 2:So we're going to learn first, which I think is really important. Let's educate ourselves. Let's let our new knowledge inform how we act, how we behave. People are going to feel the way they're going to feel.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah definitely there's feelings are okay, they're good, there's nothing bad about them, right? But we don't want to just be sensational and reactive and and all that stuff and at the same time, we by no means would ever be dismissive of bad things that are happening out in the world. Of course the world is full of them, no no. So we just, we just want to learn first, and so we're going to break this up into a couple parts where we learn, and then we'll comment right and discuss.
Speaker 1:And so part of the whole, even Catholic, understanding of truth is that as a reasonable creature, I am obligated by my faith to seek the truth, and part of seeking the truth is learning to educate myself. And and even if I educate myself and there's things that I do not agree with, again, our faith tells us that we are not to make rash decisions right. So we're supposed to discern these things. So how? I first like to demystify the word synod. So synod is our English equivalent of the Greek word synodis, s y n o d? U? S, which simply means assembly and is also equal to our other English word, council, as in ecumenical council.
Speaker 1:So for us Catholics we would say that the first synod or the first council was that of the Jerusalem Council. That was held around the year 54, when the apostles had to address the question of Gentile believers and the gospel preached by Saint Paul. This in and of itself carries the implication that the apostles, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, had some teaching power or authority. That's where the Magisterium comes from to teach Magisterial, and we'll talk a little bit more about that a little bit later. So there's an implication there that the fact that they had come together to make a decision, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, that they have the power, the authority, to make a decision on the topic right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and right up front, there is nothing different about a synod or a council, at least from linguistic standpoint. Like it just means the same thing, same thing.
Speaker 1:Later on they begin to use one word for one thing and the other word for the other things, but we'll talk about that in a minute. Yeah, so this is not a new thing in the church. I mean, go back to the year 54 with the first council there. And there's also some commentators on the letters of Pope Clement I to the Corinthians that representatives of Clement as the Roman Pontiff, as the authority, as the chair of Peter, the sea of Peter, that representatives of Clement I were sent to the local synod or the local assembly or the local council of the church in Corinth. So Pope Clement lived from the year 35 AD to the year 99 AD and he was the fourth pope. So Peter, linus, cleetus and Clemens, right? So Clemens is Clement. And if you would go to your Catholic encyclopedia, we're told there by the author, father or mister or miss, whoever it is. It just says P, g-o-a-n-n-o-u. On the synods in the early church, he says or they say.
Speaker 1:The author says the first recorded synodal gatherings of bishops took place in Asia Minor around the year 170 to deal with the heresy of mountainism. Likewise, around the year 177, apparently there was a synod of the bishops in Gaul. What we know is France now. Irenaeus of Leon was sent to Rome to deal with Pope Eleutherius regarding mountainism the same question of mountainism. Now, mountainism was a heresy where I think we talked about this before in one of our other podcasts. It has to do with the heresy of the new prophecy, the incarnation of the Holy Spirit. Things got a little skewed with Montanus and the two women, prisca or Priscilla and Maximilia. So anyway, dealing with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they thought that the Holy Spirit was speaking through them.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so now they had new.
Speaker 1:Now new revelation which is not yes exactly, which is something we do not Believe in or accept. Okay, so year 54, 170, 177, and then in the year 250, which was a huge year for the church because it was facing the persecution of the emperor Decious so they call it the deishen persecution and then it raised the question of the lopsie. We talked about that as well, yeah, so Part of the council then was what do we do about the lopsie? So they had a synod gathered together and the bishops had to decide about the absolution of the lopsie, or Raptism, baptism, re baptism, ba ba, ba I don't have coffee yet or the re baptism, right.
Speaker 1:And the synods were held in Africa under Bishop Agrippa and St Cyprian, and there was also a synod in Rome under Pope Hippolytus and Callistus. So there was something that was going on in the church, right, about the lopsie and those. How do we deal with them, those that offered sacrifice or incense or whatever it was, or they? Do we re baptize them? Do we kick them out? What do we do all that stuff? And we talked about that in the other Podcasts that we had.
Speaker 1:So there were consultations that took place among the bishops, also in Asia, palestine and Gaul, concerning what what is known as the Easter controversy, and it wasn't a huge controversy, was just trying to figure out how do we calculate Easter right, because math is hard yeah so we're trying to figure out how do we do this, I mean, and so again, for us as Roman Catholics, we that what we calculated is it's the first Sunday after the first Full moon of spring, which is based on how the Jewish People, or the Jewish calendar is, is based for their celebration of the Passover. So, so these gatherings are not Strange or weird. There's another, another large, large Council that's when they start using the word council the ecumenical gatherings beginning with Nicaea in 325. So this first council in 390, in 325, was attended by 318 bishops to discuss Another problem, which was the Aryan heresy. Okay, so this whole region, or this whole gathering of all the, the bishops of the church, to discuss a problem.
Speaker 1:When the bishops come together as a synod, they're not representing the people of their diocese. In a way they are, but they're not like well, this is what my people think like no, they gather together as the teachers, as the leaders of the church that the epistle, charism or grace right. So they come together, just like the bishops did in the first council in Jerusalem, when the apostles gathered, and, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, they discern and they pray and they discuss and they come to a decision, so that that's part of this whole process, right? So again, it's not a democratic process. It's not about coming to vote. You know what are we gonna vote for, or vote down, or vote up. It is a gathering of bishops, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to make a decision about Problems or to discuss the mission of the church so okay.
Speaker 2:So like to. To make a comparison, for I guess us in the United States, right, we have a Congress, and from governmentally, right. And so the people who are elected to Congress Represent the people in each of the areas, right, and so they should be pushing forward the agendas of the people in those local areas, like we need better roads, or we need more schools or libraries or whatever, or we think this should be legal or this should be illegal. That's what their job is to to forward the agenda of the people In their areas, but that is not what they're doing, correct here in these councils, right?
Speaker 2:So that's what they're doing here in these councils?
Speaker 1:right Correct. So politically, our representatives should Strive for the common good. Right, the common good, and sometimes the common good is not something that um.
Speaker 1:Is good, exactly, exactly it's not necessarily what the majority want, but you're supposed to push for the common good, the good of all, right. So this is not what this is about. This is, this is the, the, the gathering of the body of the Episcopoy, of the leaders under as representatives, and, and, and those who follow in the footsteps of the apostles, to make A discernment concerning the good of not just the church, but the advancement of the gospel Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the trigger is something that is going on. Yeah, right, so it's. It's not like the people want us to come talk about these things, it's like an observation. I right, this is going on in the world. We need to discuss this, right, because we have to understand how the church responds to this, how the church navigates it, exactly Based on the faith we were given correct by the apostles, change it to yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so in the council of nicaea, the council in nicaea, the ecumenical council, they chose to have, um, bi yearly Holding of sin is right, and that's in the, the canon of nicaea, canon number five. Now, bi yearly, I'm not sure if that means I haven't gone into the history of it, I don't know if that meant twice a year or every other year. Right, every two years, or twice a year. So bi yearly, it probably be every two years, because semi annual would be twice a year, so every second year. And so that was for the large, the large ecumenical council, and the province or the territory or the region of the synods were acknowledged as courts of first instance For complaints from bishops, right, so if the bishop had Something to worry about, he would go, he would bring his concern to the regional Synod, right, and then if it wouldn't, couldn't be resolved in the regional synod, then it would go to the larger council, right, and so then for clergy, for priests, they would bring their Complaints to their bishop, and if the bishop Couldn't answer, then the priests would bring the complaint to the regional synod.
Speaker 1:Right, so there's, there's, there's a level, there's a way of doing this, if anything in the in the west, we're very organized.
Speaker 1:So, there's a way to do this right.
Speaker 2:And this is. This seems very scriptural too, because what is? What is that say like, go to your brother and if you didn't listen, then take him to the church, and if he doesn't listen, right. Yeah, exactly, there's an escalation path, yeah exactly so.
Speaker 1:There was a synod in Sardica in 342 and in that synod the bishops agreed, and they made a decision, that the the right of appeal to Rome by bishops who were deposed by their metropolitans or patriarchs right. So what happened was like for example, if there is, you can you have the archbishop of san Antonio, or you have the metropolitan in a particular area in the east, if under there's an investigation and the trial or the tribunal of bishops removes a bishop from their office, that bishop can appeal to the holy sea. All right, so they had the right of appeal. Is what? What? What came up in the year 342. So already Things are getting organized, things are getting defined, all these different things are put, it being put in place, right? So, okay, this is not something new.
Speaker 1:In the eastern church in constantanople, there was something called the synodus endomusa, which meant basically a standing synod, and that was made up from bishops from the surrounding provinces. There were either either living or visiting in the capital. So if there was a decision to be made, the patriarch could call those bishops that were around. So the for consultation, and they would, you know, start the process of whatever it is that they needed to to face right. So, so, as we can see from this history, that the gathering of bishops, which was convoked by the ecclesiastical leader of the territory, either of the diocese, of the archdiocese, of the region, or even by the pope, calling different bishops from around the world I think they're the ones the leader is the one that convokes or calls them together to discuss something.
Speaker 1:And, as you can see, as we look at the the history of this, it usually it's to deal with doctrine, ecclesiastical policy, or to clarify the church's position on a particular issue. Do we re-baptize those, the Lopsey, or do we excommunicate them? What do you do with them? What about the heresy of mountainism? What about the heresy of Arian? So we deposed the bishops that believed in the Arian heresy. So they were deposed, and so they appealed to the Holy See. They only said, no, it's a heresy, you're not gonna go back to your seat. So all of this is part of that history, right?
Speaker 2:So you know what kind of sorry to take a quick tangent I'm giggling in my head, because all I can think of is just like a faculty meeting and all the bishops are sitting around going. This could have been an email, you know Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:That happens, Could you do a on a? Well, yeah, man, and sorry, I think I just answered my own question, my thought, but you could do this even smaller than bishops thing a faculty meeting and like you got, as Carmelites, you all meet regularly and you talk about all the things that are going on and there's some hierarchy of you know, communication and decision making and all that, right.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because the present movement, the synodal movement, right, and the present movement, the present Holy Father, is a religious and most religious orders.
Speaker 1:We have chapters, we have these meetings when we come together and we discuss, you know, what is the vision of where. You know how do we see ourselves in the next three years, what are the things we want to accomplish, what are the areas that need to grow in, what are the areas that we're doing well and we need to short up or whatever? Right, and so it's for us as religious, it's not a new thing and I think that's one of the things that the present Holy Father is trying to do bring that process into the church of listening, right, of gathering together and discussing things and not waiting for there to be a huge problem, right, instead of being, instead of trying to be, instead of being reactive, which has been the history of the church to be proactive, right, and that's I think that's a good thing, but we'll get to that in a little bit, yeah, so then, with the evolution of history and the church's development and facing the multiple challenges in the world, there came the need for an ecumenical council in the postmodern world.
Speaker 1:So after Trent, it was several hundred years before we had another council. So the first attempt was that of the first Vatican Council, which was from December of 1869 to October of 1870. And it was cut short. We talked about this before it was cut short due to the Franco-Prussian War, right, yeah, so then, so as the call for another ecumenical council because the first Vatican Council was aborted, right, it was cut short as the call for another ecumenical council continued with call for reform of the liturgy from various regions of the world, there came the second Vatican Ecumenical Council, with all the preparations and discussions being brought up. Okay, so, all this is happening.
Speaker 1:So then, what happens then is, in 1959, cardinal Silvio Odi, who at the time was the apostolate delegate to Jerusalem, palestine, proposed a permanent consultative body of bishops drawn from different parts of the world to discuss major concerns of the church. And at the same time, cardinal Bernardo Ioannis Alfring at the time was the Archbishop of Utrich he proposed a permanent council of specialized bishops to legislate for the church in union with the popes, and the pope and the cardinals. Okay, that touches a little bit on conciliarism, which, of course, was not going to be accepted, and we'll talk about that some other time. So then, what happens? In all this preparation? We have the beginning of the Second Vatican Council, the reform of the church, looking at all these different things, and then, on the 14th of September 1965, at the opening of the fourth and final session of the council, pope Paul VI announced that on the following day he was to establish the Synod of Bishops as a strictly advisory body. It would discuss topics proposed to it and would make recommendations, unless the pope gave the Synod a deliberative power. In other words, whatever the bishops decide, that will become law.
Speaker 1:Okay so then, in 1967, pope Paul VI convoked the first ordinary general assembly of the Synod of Bishops, whose topic to tackle was the preservation and strengthening of the Catholic faith, its integrity, its force, its development, its doctrinal and historical coherence. That's a long title and that encompasses a lot, and so they met from September 29 to October 29 in 1967. Okay so, and that's basically how the Synod of this Synod of Bishops began. Is Pope Paul VI is the one that created this body. It's called the General Assembly, right. So the assembly, the General Assembly of Bishops recommended that, met together, and it's from September 29 to October 29, 1967. They recommended an establishment of an International Commission of theologians to help the congregation for the doctrine of faith, and in 1969, paul VI established the International Theological Commission due to the recommendation of the first General Assembly, and the Synod also called for the revision of the Code of Canon Law of 1917, which was eventually carried out in 1983. Right.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you a quick question? Sure, this assembly of Bishops, or, I guess, the Theological Commission, the theologians, yeah, are not they? Are they Laity, are they Catholic? Are they other bishops, are they cardinals? Like? Who makes up this? The?
Speaker 1:theologians. They would be people that would. They're usually priests, usually priests or religious, and they're specialists in the area that they're called to give their advice on Right. So you would so somebody that's a specialist in the liturgy, the development of the liturgy, or he would be a theologian, and they would ask him for his advice. And a lot of this was happening during the Second Vatican Council as well. The Paredi, they call him the Paredi that would come in, they would educate right. So this Theological Commission is a board of theologians of different areas that would help the Dicastery of bishops for the sacred congregation, the sacred congregation for the doctrine of faith, to help them discern what are the things that they can help them to make decisions concerning faith and morals right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember us talking once and I can't remember which episode or what the topic necessarily was, but it was the realization that the bishops weren't always experts at a particular thing and so they, they had to bring people in to kind of help, right, every guide, everybody, right, and that's such a such a strange thought because you'd think, like part of your role as a bishop is to be a teacher. Yeah, and you can't teach what you don't know, right, but we also, we have to keep in mind that people have different degrees of knowledge about different things. Yes, yeah, right, and so it's just because and just because, like my wife's a middle school teacher, that doesn't mean that she is at the same level as, like J R Tolkien was, you know, about teaching language right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Everybody has a different degree of skill and knowledge, correct, correct, correct, correct, correct, and that's something to keep in mind as well. A lot of these people come to inform and to educate right, and that's that's. That's what the whole idea is, is to make informed, educated decisions, to consider things right. So, excuse me, so the 1983 Code of Canon Law, which was, you know, the Updated from the 1917 Code, so now that we have this Synod of Bishops, the 1983 Code defines the General Assembly or the Synod of Bishops as a group of bishops who have been chosen from different regions of the world and meet at fixed times to foster closer unity between the Roman Pontiff and bishops, to assist the Roman Pontiff with their counsel in the preservation and growth of faith and morals and in the observance and strengthening of ecclesiastical discipline, and to consider questions pertaining to the activity of the Church in the world. That's Ken in 342. So the Synod itself, the assembly they call the General Assembly when they all come together. But the Synod of Bishop has its own permanent General Secretariat. So there's always a board, there's an executive board, right, and so the executive board is composed of the General Secretary and a 15-member council, bishops, usually 12 of whom are elected by each General Assembly and three, appointed by the Pope, then the Secretariat, which is the General Secretary, and the 15-member council. The Secretariat then assists in preparing the apostolic exhortations which the Pope publishes on the basis of the recommendations of each General Assembly, and it prepares the next assembly. So once, for example, this Synod on Synodality that we're going through right now, once this is over next year I think is the next year is the last year. Once it ends, then the Secretary puts together everything, everything together, and then what it does is then it helps the Pope put together the exhortation. What are the results? And this is then what the Pope, the apostolic exhortation is. This is the teaching that comes from that gathering. Right?
Speaker 1:So just a little bit more about the General Assembly. So you know that it is again, as I said, in the West we tend to be overly organized. So in the preparation for each ordinary General Assembly like this one we're having right now, episcopal conferences or like the US Conference of Bishops, the Conference of Bishops in Europe or the Conference of Bishops in Spain or whatever, the different Episcopal conferences are asked to suggest up to three themes for discussion, and the criteria for the themes are one it needs to be of universal interest, not merely regional. It needs to be pastoral in character, with a firm doctrinal base. The third point is it needs to be contemporary and urgent, and the fourth is that it can be addressed within the allotted time of the meeting. So then what happens is the secretariat, after receiving all the suggestions from the different Episcopal conferences, prepares an outline document it's called the Lineamenta which is then redistributed to all the Episcopal conferences for comment and, based on this feedback, a working document, instrumentum Laboris, is prepared and distributed again, sent out again to all the Episcopal conferences, and then this document is the basis for discussion at the Synod. So everything that they're discussing at this Synod has gone through this. Nobody's going to pop some new issue. Everybody, every Episcopal conference, has already prepared and they already know, and so they've come together to discuss these themes.
Speaker 1:Now, just for a second here, just a little side note here. Like what is the title of this Synod? It is the Synod on Synodality. So it's what it's? A gathering on gatherings. So basically it's just trying to teach people how to listen. So it's a gathering on how to gather together and listen, basically teaching them how religious communities do this, come together and discuss and look at the goals and what they've done right. So that's a little bit on that Now. How much time do we have here before we go?
Speaker 2:We're doing good. We're doing good.
Speaker 1:Okay, now a little bit on Magisterium. So again, as I said earlier, Magisterium means teaching, right so it comes from the Latin word magister, which is teacher, and so the Magisterium then refers to the teaching office of the church that is held by the Pope, by bishops and theologians. Right so? My local bishop is my spiritual father, but also he has the office of teacher. So now we have what we call the Ordinary Papal Magisterium, that is, the teaching office of the Sea of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, right so? Ordinary Papal Magisterium is a teaching from the Pope and bishops speaking as one on matters of faith and morals. Those statements are reformable, they can be educated, they can be expanded, they can be changed. Right, this is just. This is what we know. This is the best educated discernment that we can make at this point, but it is open to further discernment if we get more information right.
Speaker 2:Can it be retracted? Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they can change the teaching, and that's what it means, that it's reformable. So the ordinary people. Magisterium, then, requires from us religious ascent, which includes a respect for the office of the Magisterium as teachers, a ready and respectful allegiance of mind, a religious respect of intellect and will, as well as internal religious ascent. Now, going back to the podcast, or the episode we did, on descent.
Speaker 1:I can disagree, but part of my disagreement is it's not a disagreement like I don't like it. That's not descent. The descent is I don't understand this, but I have to be open to be taught. I have to be educable. Am I open to consider the theological philosophical arguments that are being presented to me? And if I don't understand that, then can I educate myself to understand that? That's part of the whole idea of ascent.
Speaker 1:So then there's Extraordinary Magisterium, and this is an infallible teaching from the Pope and bishops in Ecumenical Council. So, for example, Second Vatican Council. I know some people don't like it, but I'm sorry. It's Extraordinary Magisterium and it's a matter of learning what it is Instead of listening to people's opinions about it. I need to educate myself about the teachings of the Council. It is an infallible teaching in which one, the Pope, speaks Ex-Cathedra, which is dogma, and there is the Marian dogmas. Or and this is where the Councils fall under bishops as a body issue a document in their capacity as teachers. So all the popes, all the popes, all the popes and all the bishops together in the Council are teachers, and so I have to accept this, teaching them from them. So these statements are not retractable, they're not reformable. They are definite and absolute. They must be held to be true and they belong to our deposit of faith. We owe them loyal obedience. We must ascend in faith. They're held to be part of divine and Catholic faith.
Speaker 1:So again, if I don't understand it, I can argue with it, I can educate myself, but instead of just emoting about it, I need to learn that I need to be open to that. So there's also a descending order of importance or allegiance. So the thing that I need to be most faithful to and I owe the most allegiance would be the Pope, whatever dogmas that comes from the Holy See, X cathedra. So then there's the encyclicals, and after the Pope and encyclicals, now we have the Councils, which are constitutions, decrees and declarations. If you look at the decrees from the Councils ecumenical Councils and there's also after them, there's synods or Councils of bishops who, with the Pope, discuss matters of faith and morals. This is part of that as well.
Speaker 1:Then, underneath that, you have the congregations. So the congregation, the sacred congregations from the different parts of the Korea, the congregation of religious. You have the congregation of the Dicastry of bishops. You have the congregation or the Dicastry of faith and family life. Okay, they issue constitutions, instructions, decrees, declarations or answers. Then after them you have the National Conference of bishops. You have the USCCB, the United States Conference of Catholic bishops pastor letters, commentaries. Then you have your state bishops and then you have your individual bishops. So all those are different levels of teaching, right? So have I confused you.
Speaker 2:No, but there's the, because the takeaway there is, as you said once, like, the Holy Spirit's work is unity and the devil's work is disunity, and so, even though there's a hierarchy of things, the correct response on my part is obedience and ascent and unity, right.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think part of it too. I think, and the reason I wanted to just do this, this particular podcast, was because there's so much emotional reaction. There's so much, it's because it's because that's polarizing, which is unnecessary Because, as I said, the Synod is the Synod of Synod. On Synodality is this? It's a matter of teaching us, teaching bishops, how to listen, to gather. How do we, how do we in the postmodern world, how do we address the teaching of the gospel in today's culture in all the different facets and permutations of the different parts and competing parts and at times, very opposed parts of society as a church? And that's the reason why we're having the Synod. Right, and if you disagree with the Pope, okay, it's fine, but as a believer, I have to respect the office, respect the office of the Holy See, and that's what confuses me. A lot of times there's Catholics who are very anti this Pope and then very pro this other public, like it's the same office. For Christ's sake, it's the same office.
Speaker 1:They're all due respect. If you agree, fine. If you don't agree, that's fine too, but you have to respect the teaching of the office. One of the the cannons, canon 751, speaks of schism. Schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the church subject to him. In other words, am I educable, am I formable, am I open to be educated, am I open to be informed, or am I just being stubborn right and placing myself outside of the communion without really knowing that I have placed myself outside of the communion? Now? Bishops have to understand that theologians should be able to probe sensitive areas of doctrine while remaining loyal to the church, and theologians must understand that the magisterium carries ultimate responsibility for the deposit of faith. So there has to be, there is tension, but it has to be a tension that is a healthy tension. Right that I need to be able to listen to things that are uncomfortable, but that theologians also have to have to remember that the deposit of faith is a great responsibility that lays upon the shoulders of the magisterium.
Speaker 1:The Second Vatican Council. It issued a partial instruction on the means of social communication, and here the council says the church has to adapt herself to the special circumstances that arose out of time and place. She has to consider how the truths of the faith may be explained in different times and cultures, and this is very important. That's how we make the Gospel relevant to today's cultures by understanding today's culture. But I'm not going to understand today's culture if I'm not willing to listen and examine and investigate the roots of the problems of the current culture. Right, that's part of that, right so, and sometimes you have clergy that oppose publicly, and that's it.
Speaker 1:I find that very upsetting.
Speaker 1:Not that they have a different, not that they don't agree with the teaching of the church or the teaching of the Pope. What upsets me is there's no reason to make it public and to churn up emotion, because people don't really understand the whole process of synods and the whole proper channels of bringing your upset to the authorities in the right channel. What of the priest who does not reflect or express the official church teaching in his public or private utterances? Here precisely is the cause of confusion. The layperson trusts the priest and the layperson rightly expects the priest that he would not teach something that is at variance with that of the local bishop or the Pope. But what happens is sometimes the clergy out of emotion. I can't say malice because I don't know, but sometimes what happens is they respond from an emotional place and all that does is it confuses people. It does not help at all. So that's one of the things I wanted to talk about this idea of sin and synodality, what really is going on, and not for people to get so confused and upset.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, it's a really good. This is really something that we all have to consider, we have to really think about. Do I have that capacity to listen? Do I have that capacity to contemplate what somebody else's opinion or their position or whatever is? Can I do it appropriately? Do I fall? Do I properly dissent, or do I just kick and scream and throw a fit? Rebellion versus reform, all these different topics we've talked about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and so I think part of it is stop reacting emotionally and educate yourself.
Speaker 1:And there are some clergy out there that are actually fomenting rebellion, for whatever reason, and they're arguing from particular stances without really taking into consideration the entirety of the faith, the entirety of the deposit of faith, the whole Christian life, everything that has been handed on to us. Because, as I see it, then, why is it that you are promoting rebellion but you don't want anyone to contradict you? Isn't your argument contradicting itself? So if you're promoting rebellion, so why can't we rebel against you? And you're rebellion, so you become the final arbiter of all truth. And that's not true. The final arbiter of all truth is Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and the office and the church that he has instituted on in this world, and part of it is. We have to learn to deal with the human element of our church, but also work towards unity, works to make sure that I'm not contributing to division. I'm not contributing and helping the enemy divide the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because all that division it sounds like some historical figure I've heard of. So let's go ahead, because we're gonna make this into a couple parts, right, so we can really just dig in into the commentary now. So I really hope that this episode was really informative for a lot of people and we really do ask that you please share this if you're listening, with somebody else who is taking great interest in all of this that's going on right now. Help them to be better informed so that they can inform their response, inform their thoughts, inform their actions and how we all come together as a truly Catholic church.
Speaker 1:Correct, correct.
Speaker 2:Alright Father.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:We're gonna wrap it up. Yeah, I will talk to you soon. Thank you, god bless. Bye.