In this episode, John and Fr. Stephen navigate through the intricate world of synods and synodality, focusing on the need to seek understanding and truth over the desire to be "right". This enlightening encounter emphasizes prayer, the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and the evolving nature of the Church, while upholding the importance of the deposit of faith. Father Stephen imparts his insights on the role of priests and bishops in promoting the gospel, stressing the importance of respectful dialogue and open-mindedness. As he deals with the subject of differing beliefs and the associated emotional reactions, he sheds light on the essence of the Church's teachings: to spread the mercy, love, and compassion of Jesus Christ.
The conversation then shifts to the heart of dialogue within the Church and its mission. Drawing inspiration from the story of the woman at the well, they emphasize Jesus' approach of understanding and compassion. The discussion highlights the role of the Holy Spirit, especially during uncertain times, and delves into the significance of belief, faith, and the art of effective communication. The conversation concludes with a focus on unity, open-mindedness, and the pursuit of truth. Together, they unravel the importance of love, education, and remaining open to the opinions of others while upholding the integrity of our faith. Tune in to this enlightening episode and embark on a spiritual journey with us.
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
In this episode, John and Fr. Stephen navigate through the intricate world of synods and synodality, focusing on the need to seek understanding and truth over the desire to be "right". This enlightening encounter emphasizes prayer, the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and the evolving nature of the Church, while upholding the importance of the deposit of faith. Father Stephen imparts his insights on the role of priests and bishops in promoting the gospel, stressing the importance of respectful dialogue and open-mindedness. As he deals with the subject of differing beliefs and the associated emotional reactions, he sheds light on the essence of the Church's teachings: to spread the mercy, love, and compassion of Jesus Christ.
The conversation then shifts to the heart of dialogue within the Church and its mission. Drawing inspiration from the story of the woman at the well, they emphasize Jesus' approach of understanding and compassion. The discussion highlights the role of the Holy Spirit, especially during uncertain times, and delves into the significance of belief, faith, and the art of effective communication. The conversation concludes with a focus on unity, open-mindedness, and the pursuit of truth. Together, they unravel the importance of love, education, and remaining open to the opinions of others while upholding the integrity of our faith. Tune in to this enlightening episode and embark on a spiritual journey with us.
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
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Speaker 2:Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me and my friend the friar Father Steven Sanchez, a Discal Scammerlight Priest. Good morning again, father. Good morning again. You know what I love about when I record in our little office room here.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:There is always this like never ending stream of squirrels that run back and forth on the fence and they're so busy I don't know what they're up to, but there's one sitting in this tree that's right behind the fence and it's just. It's like the perfect little hidey place for it to like give itself a little bath.
Speaker 1:It's trying to figure out how to get into your roof to destroy all of your insulation and wiring.
Speaker 2:So oh my goodness, if they moved into the roof, betty would just open the attic door and say come on down, guys, come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that's true.
Speaker 2:Anywho, alright, so we are back and we're now commentating. Commenting, we're going to try to constructively as possible discuss and listen to one another, our thoughts and opinions on our previous episode about synods, and so this part is very unstructured, unscripted, but I think what I want, for myself at least, what's my goal in having this conversation? Because I'm, I think I'm probably very similar to a lot of Catholics and and other Christians, non-christians, people of the world, the laity, where I hear so many things where it's very scary, right, it's very easy to get caught up or frustrated or get swept up in emotions and whatnot. And so I want to, for myself, try to keep, keep coming back to am I willing to listen? Am I willing to have the difficult conversations? Am I willing to enter into the conversation from the perspective that I want to understand? Not, I want to be right.
Speaker 1:That's, I'm glad and I'm glad you say that, because the ultimate driving force would be am I looking for the truth? Am I searching for the truth? Whether I like it or not, whether it's disappointing or not, whether it has, I have to change my way of seeing things or understanding things or not. It's a matter of seeking the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I'm married Thank thank God, and my wife has me well trained that most of the time I'm wrong and no. But seriously, what I've realized in the beautiful relationships that come from being married and being a parent is that the times where I act thinking that I know what I need to do in this situation, like there's a there's a pretty substantial probability that I'm going to goof something up Right, and so it's not always going well. I know it's right for you, it's. Let me listen to you and let me see how you feel, and then we can move to a place of hopefully what's what's best in whatever the situation might be especially with parenting.
Speaker 2:That's one thing, because of course I think, just like my teenage daughter thinks she's right in everything, I guess I'm just a teenage dad somehow, because I think I'm right in everything and we have to talk and we have to understand each other if we're going to continue in relationship and love and guidance and stuff.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, so anyway. So we left off with the, the how the laity trusts the priest. The priest might be opinionated. I think this is probably a huge problem in our in the world, because we're kind of of an age where we were, I know, everybody started getting trophies, you know, when you're a kid, and so it's like everybody is right. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's. That's not possible, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that's the, that's the confusion, because and I would I would probably bet that there are powers that be that want confusion and want to make you angry and upset and divisive, so like what do? I don't know what do you do with that, because some of the topics that that they're talking about at the Synod and Synodality or that they did, are the kinds of things that are very emotionally charging or difficult to talk about, like we don't want to talk about it kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:But that's the challenge of the gospel. The gospel is to look at these different things or whether, okay, so we're not, we're not. It was just as as charged and polemic in the time of the Lopsie. I mean, you had everybody upset and like, no, you know, we don't want them, and there betrayed Jesus and they shouldn't be, able.
Speaker 1:And then, well, no, the gospel says we different. The church has always gone through that and always will go through that. As long as, as long as we're waiting for Jesus, I mean, yeah, it's, it's just part of the human reality. But the what has to be emphasized is am I praying through this? Do I have a real, a real relationship with Jesus Christ? Am I capable of spending time in silence before the Lord and pray about this and ask the Holy Spirit to give me light and to give me understanding, to give me wisdom, to give me those gifts that I need? Because there's always going to be a reaction to moving forward.
Speaker 1:And that's part again, as we've said before and I keep saying again is that the church in space and time is developing and growing towards the full maturation in Christ. That means change, that means development, that means growth. Does it mean to get rid of everything? No, we need to be faithful to the deposit, we need to hold on to what the apostles have handed on to us. But what is that necessary to look like Now? How do I communicate that to a world that is so divisive? How do I communicate that to a world that is so set on proving itself against authority, against tradition, against institutions, right, and so those are things that we need to look at, and even within the believing church again there's, there's divisions, there's there's misunderstandings.
Speaker 1:And again, because a lot of times we react we react from emotion. For example, the new missile that was published a couple years ago, the Roman missile right. The book that we use on the altar for the celebration of the Eucharist with a new translation. Right, there's a new translation. And they're like do I like it? No, I do not like it. The English is absolutely terrible. A lot of people have commented it's basically Latinized English. So when you look at it and you go like okay, so where's the verb, where's the subject?
Speaker 1:You're trying to read this publicly and you're like no, but okay, this is what has been handed on to me, this is what is given, this is the official. Okay, I have to. I don't like it, I think it was better before, but this is what's been given to me. So I need to submit to the authority and say, okay, this is what's been given to me. Okay, so are there mistakes? Yeah, there are mistakes, but they'll correct them, but this is what's been given to me. So part of it, too, is, I think, learning to understand that we're continuously developing, trying to find ways to profess and announce the gospel that has been given to us by God, the Father and the person of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ in passing on that mission to the apostles. So I have to learn to grow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what do you mean? It wasn't perfect in the first century and we should just do it that way. You know what I mean. I've heard arguments like that. Right, I don't know what to do with this. Thanks, catechism and your podcast, because now I've learned a lot of the Catechism. So I have a responsibility to act on my conscience. I cannot, if something is against my conscience, like it's wrong for me to do that thing, but I have a responsibility to inform my conscience because my emotions are not my conscience Correct, but I don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like I hear somebody say something and I agree with them and, like I said, I don't know what to do with that. I don't know how to. How do I inform my conscience? How do I not just react? How do I step back for a minute?
Speaker 1:Well, I think part of it is. We have been, unfortunately, we have been educated or indoctrinated into believing that there should be no tension in my life, and that's not true. Life is about tension, life is about discernment, life is about trying to balance all these different things in my life right. And so a lot of times, what we do is we react, trying to break the stress or trying to break the required discernment that is required in the particular instance. I need to discern between the dignity of human life and I need to, okay and charity, and then yet, but what is the real charity? And so what is the real justice? And so a lot of times, what happens is we lose the fundamental teaching as we get caught up in. Sometimes we get caught up in the minutiae right and the tiny details and we lose a grasp of the greater reality, not being able to see the forest for the trees.
Speaker 1:And that can happen religiously too. It can become something that is a religious thing in all types of faiths, not just our own particular Catholic church. And so what happens is people, because they haven't been catechized well, they begin to react emotionally, like, for example, when we talked about the catechism start talking about the catechism. It was about, yeah, the Baltimore catechism was good enough for me, like yeah, okay, but that was mostly wrote. It was mostly just you answer the question and you memorize the question and doesn't necessarily mean that you actually understood what you were saying, but you know what the answer was. And so now the new catechism is much more engages the person and asks them to be disciples and asks them to continue their conversion. Right? So I have to learn to separate my emotive reaction to something and actually, as I said before and I will continue to say, we need to learn how to educate ourselves.
Speaker 1:Especially today we have the World Wide Web where you can just you can have access to almost absolutely everything and instead of you know, instead of following whatever's trending or whatever's going on right now, whatever the challenge is, I have the capacity to enter into libraries and really do research and find ways of educating myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's, and that's, I think, really important. The, the internet and media is this it's kind of to me it seems so like American or Roman, where it's like something to the nth degree right.
Speaker 2:So it's like human interaction to the nth degree.
Speaker 2:It's an, it's, it's appeal to the nth degree.
Speaker 2:So everything that you're, everything is competing for your attention, and it's doing so especially now with like AI and all that stuff and with a very like calculated precision that it's really hard for you to escape it. Yeah, but so with that too, like then you hear so, like yeah, in your, your, your priest, your local priest, might be saying things that are that you agree with or you disagree with, or it might be things that rile you up in one way or like, again, you agree with it, and so you're riled up because you feel kind of empowered, because somebody else feels the same way you do, or it could be something that you disagree with strongly, and so we shouldn't go out like how you say emote, I shouldn't go emote online, or I shouldn't go gossip with other people or vent and all this stuff, because it's not helpful. I should just be going to my priest and requesting an audience kind of thing. Right, like we should. I'd like to come and sit and talk with you about some of this stuff.
Speaker 1:Right and because, again, priests are human beings as well, and so it's very important.
Speaker 1:It's very important that they learn not to emote and not to be, not to politicize and not. I have my private personal understanding of things, but I cannot and should not use the podium as a place to vent that or to imply something or to impose my own personal religiosity on them. That's not the role of the priest. The role of the priest is to preach the gospel, to educate and to bring them to a fuller life in Jesus Christ, and so sometimes what happens is they get up on the podium and they start saying stuff that they shouldn't. Oh really, Okay, so Well, what do you do?
Speaker 2:when it's even bigger than that, like everybody at this point knows, whether they like it or not, about the things that some of us do, the things that some bishops have or have not done or said around the world. So when it's even bigger, like for me, something that I grapple or struggle a lot with is and I'm not quite sure why, but the sin of scandal. I am I'm obvious, for good reason opposed to sinful things right, right, of course, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't want them. I'm like revolts, revolts by them. But when we have bishops saying and doing things or promoting things or even letting things go because that's maybe that's a good point to pick on there's, it is one thing to be willing to talk to someone or spend time with someone. As Jesus said, the sick need the doctor, right.
Speaker 2:No not the healthy people. So that's one thing, but it seems to me a very different thing to allow things to continue, and maybe that's why people are so worried about the Senate and these conversations. Right, it's like why are you talking about it? You know the answer. You know the answer is don't do that thing, or whatever. You're right, but you have to engage with people. And so this is about learning. So it's like again, I don't know what to do with all those thoughts either.
Speaker 1:Right. And again, I think part of it, too, is most bishops are administrators, and so I hesitate to imply that there's malice, right, sometimes it's a lack of education. Sometimes people influence bishops. Bishops can be influenced by people and they can be used, and sometimes I think that's what's happening too. I think they're people not just people, but forces that use bishops or offices to cause further dissension and divisiveness, and again, for me it's like, really, dude, this is not the place to do that. It's not your place to go online or to try to garner likes or trying to win popularity, whether it's left, right, middle, right of left or whatever, it is right. It's not about that.
Speaker 1:And so what happens is people are using media to polarize and divide the church instead of using it to like okay, we need to work on this, we need to be respectful, we need to educate ourselves, we need to be open, to be educated, and it's really about it should be about not being, as you said earlier, not being right, but about okay, so taking the mercy, compassion and love of Jesus Christ as we receive it in the gospel. How are we to promote the gospel? First with amongst ourselves, because that's where we need to apply it first, and then how do we witness that to the world? And one of the things that really makes me sad is for all the critics of the Catholic church. They look at the stuff that's going on in the church right now. They go like see, I'm like come on, man, really. And so like not good.
Speaker 2:And I think maybe again for me, going back to fatherhood, I think if anyone is in a position that is supposed to be one of authority, it's very easy to fall into the trap of I want you to do what I say. I strongly feel that I'm right in this, so I need you to just do it. That's a very easy path to take or trap to fall into. No, I don't care what you wanna do. I said be home at eight. You know what I mean, and so I can imagine that happens to the local priest, the bishop, whatever, right.
Speaker 1:And I think again, going back to the whole idea, the temptation to want to vent publicly. It's irresponsible, especially for a church leader, for a minister, right to vent publicly. I think it's just not responsible. I think like you're not helping, you're not helping.
Speaker 2:So what do we think should come from this and future synods, what should our expectations be and what should our dispositions be? Because I know we should ascent and be promoting unity, and that should be our goal, but how do we get there? Based off, what do we think is going to come from these kinds of conversations?
Speaker 1:I think what's lacking and this is a very difficult resolution what's lacking is the ability to think critically, to actually observe something objectively and to be thinking through critically. Is this really? You might be saying something that I like, right, and of course I'm going to agree with you if I like it right. So we're going to have I don't know, we're going to have enchiladas for lunch every day this week.
Speaker 2:I agree, sign me up yeah.
Speaker 1:But somebody that's lactose intolerant or doesn't like spice or doesn't like okay, they're going to be very upset about it and you're like no, no, no, I think it's right, like no anyway. That's a silly. It's a silly example. But to learn to be objective and to think critically, because a lot of the problems is people are. People are just reacting emotionally, people are, so they're calling you, a banner waving and slogan isms and people are using media platforms to push their agenda and not really push a question that is, that can be objectively and critically examined.
Speaker 2:Is this a lady problem, you think, or a church, like across the board?
Speaker 1:It's in the world period just because we've been taught to not think it's unfortunate. But I would say, in terms of, for us as believers, and this process of the synods or the assemblies, as I said before, this is nothing new. This is the 16th General Assembly. Come on, really, what is? Why? Is this one everybody all turned up and upset about it's? And it's a synod on synodality. It's a synod on learning how to gather. It's a synod on learning how to listen, and that means to listen to the people of the church today, and they're different. They're very different. The people in the United States. There's different strata, there's different problems, there's different ways of observing and wanting to live our life as believers. So I think it's just facing the fragmented, divided culture, and that's where a church is. The church itself is fragmented and divided because we're in the world and that just happens to be the way we are influenced by the world, right, instead of us influencing the world.
Speaker 2:So let me ask you this man, this is, this is the kind of thing that I could hear somebody turn into some kind of like super polarizing sound bite. You know what I mean. So if you heard that and you're started rubbing your hands together because you're excited, please don't. But can can the church be truly Catholic if it is not inclusive? Because, like and let me give it a little bit more, to give you a little bit of time to think so the church first few centuries said no, that's wrong, and you're excommunicated until you repent and come back. Right, so it's so. It's like it's not all in all, not everybody's welcome, right? You can't.
Speaker 1:You can't say there are certain things you have to believe in to be part of the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's so can going back to the creed. Yeah, Back to all that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so can the church be Catholic? Where does it draw the line, I guess?
Speaker 1:we're called to proclaim the gospel. We're called to that. There is a mission that we have and the mission is to proclaim the gospel. Right, if you choose to believe and you're willing to believe everything that we profess to believe, then you're invited to join us and to join the communion of believers. Right? In terms of inclusivity, the first thing I thought it was the problems that we had in the early church with slaves, and Paul talks about slaves, like so the idea that Paul's talking about slaves? Well, that implies that the church is okay with slavery. Like well, we're talking about a church in a culture and that's where, that's where the church was and that's where the world was back then. We're not there anymore, praise God. But yeah, so we still the still, there still is a question of. It goes back to the whole gospel thing, right, like okay, the. What is it? The publicans and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of heaven before you. Like, that is a convicting statement.
Speaker 2:Right, you tie up these heavy burdens and you don't try to lift them yourself. Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:So the fact that people are interested in the church, the fact that people are interested in Jesus Christ, the fact that people are interested in the gospel, that means that there should be a dialogue. At least this is what it means. This is what it means to belong to the church. This is what it means to profess the creed, the, the nicing creed of the apostles creed. This is what it means to say that I believe that the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharistic species.
Speaker 1:This is what I believe in terms of the sacraments. This is what I believe in terms of the authority that Jesus Christ has given to the apostles, and therefore there is a teaching authority within the church that we call bishops, the apostolic office, the Episcopal frame of the church, that that builds up and holds up the church. All these are things that we need to believe in. So I think I think I have to be, I have to be careful in that I don't want to come across as hard in terms of the faith, but I'm not easy either. I it's like well, no, there's things you just need to believe.
Speaker 1:And if you don't believe, okay, then you shouldn't profess you should not be baptized or you should not be received into communion with the church because you don't believe these things, because these are the requirements. But again, there is a mission, and the mission doesn't mean that I can't dialogue with people who are interested or who have some modicum of the truth in their understanding. And my challenge then is how do I educate and cataclyse to the best of my ability from what I understand and what has been handed on to me as a member of the church? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it makes me think of and maybe because Chris just said this a couple weeks ago, but he was talking about the woman at the well, of course we get a version of it that's captured in scripture, but can you imagine what that conversation was really like?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because I'm sure Jesus didn't just show up and just, like you know, bonk around the head with all his holiness and stuff, right. And so I think I have to be careful, because what I want is a church and I think selfishly, I want a church that's going to tell you the right answer first and then listen because it thinks it's already, it knows it's already right. So I'm going to tell you what's right and then I'll listen to you, but it doesn't matter, because I know it's right, because that's like comforting to me in, it would reassure what I feel is right. Instead, we have a church that is trying to listen and then educate and then, right, like there will be a time where the church says, okay, this is, but we hear you, we hear you, we hear you, but this is what Jesus said, right, and it may not happen as fast or in the order that I want, but I think I pray that that's what's going to happen, right, you know.
Speaker 1:And I think another thing that I find a little disconcerting personally is so what you're saying is you don't believe that God, the Holy Spirit, is leading the church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Speaker 1:Is that what you're saying? That? And I'm not saying that you can't be, you shouldn't be responsible. All of us are called to be responsible, but I believe in the institution that Jesus Christ left on this earth to continue His presence here, which is the church and its sacramental system, with the bishops leading it. I believe in that. I believe that it will fulfill God's will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I believe in the act of faith and how exciting and terrifying at the same time, when Jesus asked you to step out of the boat. Yeah, you know like and that's something that I have to try and remind myself of too, because, yeah, it is kind of scary. Well, and maybe it's scary because the internet told me it's a scary time, you know, whatever that there are, I have feelings of unease and and God is calling us to trust in Him and to believe in Him, and what he said is true, that, like you said, the gates of hell will not prevail and it's going to be okay. And that's the same message to any other martyr, any other witness that you might be getting ready to get beheaded or whatever. It's okay.
Speaker 1:So I think one of the things for me, I think one of the things is this is like are you willing to consider the possibility that your particular stance is wrong? Are you willing to consider the particular stance needs to be educated? Are you willing to consider the fact that maybe my particular stance is is not informed fully? Right, and I think that's where it is. Do I have? Again, it's like are you educable? If you're not educable, then you're closed off to the spirit. You need to be able to be open, to be educated and to allow the spirit to inform.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I like that because that moves towards unity, and it's not the unity of I'm right and you're wrong and I need to convince you to join my side. It's that we're both moving to be unified in the spirit. Yes, yeah, but that's hard, of course.
Speaker 1:And I think you touched the nerve there, because nobody wants to do hard, everybody wants to do easy. I want you to tell me that I'm right. I want you to justify my stance, right. So, as the young man, as a rich young man said but I've done all those things. I'm doing all that. I'm doing all the right things.
Speaker 2:Anything more is if you want to be perfect, you know, I think it's interesting that I think every time in our conversation just now, every time we've gone back to something in the gospel, it's comforting, and whenever you hear all these things that are going on around the world and oh, it's so scary you don't hear anything about the gospel. You just hear about how you're right because it's targeted somehow towards your engagement. You're right, they're wrong.
Speaker 1:This is all scary, Right, and I think the whole idea I was thinking about this the other day or dream prayer the temptation of defining the world into us and them. So them is always going to be wrong and us is always going to be right. And that's the big temptation, that's the big obstacle. Instead of saying us and them, can't we just say us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, or we, or something. Or we yeah, yeah, because the most disgusting sinner out there is my brother. You know what I mean. And I may be him. Yeah and exactly, and that guy is probably me. That's the thing that, that position, that disposition of our hearts, that that person is probably me.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Hmm, so when you you pray a lot or so I've heard yeah, like how can someone take this stuff to prayer?
Speaker 1:One to know that division is not from God. That is not the purpose. The work of the Spirit is to bring unity. So to bring it to prayer would be to come to prayer and spend some time and just really open up your mind and your heart and ask God, the Holy Spirit, for light. Just help me overcome my own prejudices and biases and help me to seek the truth, the truth that is greater than my, greater than my personal truth, but maybe even greater than my capacity to understand but to be open to that.
Speaker 2:Would it be fair? What does Jesus say about not just love your enemy and all that? But what does he say about like, if they ask you, if they press you in the service, if they ask you for your cloak and all that stuff?
Speaker 1:Yeah, go an extra mile, give them a cloak, give them your yeah, is there?
Speaker 2:is there something there about the people that you don't agree with to to put an effort into somehow like moving to them? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I would say the first thing you have to do is you have to reconcile within yourself the idea that it's not malicious. They're not being malicious, it's not evil.
Speaker 1:And again, if people disagree, it's because they they two people see different sides of the same issue, right and again. Going back to the Gospels, we have we only have one Gospel, but we have in the liturgy, we have the Gospel according to Matthew, according to John, according to Luke, according to Mark. There's not just one, and so we have to understand that there is more to the issue than my perspective. There's more to the issue than my understanding, and that's what enriches us as a church is the idea that there are different ways of seeing things. We have the different rites, we have the Byzantine right, we have the old Ambrosian right, we there's all those. There's not one that is riter than the others.
Speaker 1:And so, when it comes to these issues, again, we have to understand. We're living in a world that is unbelieving. We're living in a world that is been very ultra individualistic now, and so how do you come together as a community and to seek the one truth that's that sets us free? How do we seek that one truth? Well, I need to consider the fact that it's not all about me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that I think, with the way Jesus, the thing that draws people to Jesus is that realization of how much he loves you. Yes, right, so it's so to try to emulate that there are people that are maybe right objectively, just wrong in something.
Speaker 1:Well, why don't?
Speaker 2:you go love them enough to change their heart Right? Why don't you go love them enough for them to experience the truth in Jesus, versus just trying to bonk them on the heads with facts and forcibly you know make them change?
Speaker 1:And going back, going back to the whole idea of the Catechism, that only disciples make disciples. Are you being a disciple? And being a disciple doesn't mean citing canon law or citing legal, you know prescriptions. Are you really living the gospel you profess?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, man, that's not going to. Those kinds of messages aren't going to trigger somebody on the internet. Goodness, we suck at this. Well, I appreciate you wanting to talk about this, though, because, yeah, there's just always so much and going on in these kind of conversations, at least for me, selfishly, or very comforting, because it helps me to re-center and to kind of recollect and move forward.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and everyone out there, thank you for listening and thank you for joining us. Please share the podcast, give us a like, leave us a comment, all that kind of stuff. And we'll see you all next time. God bless Jinks. Bye.