In this episode, Fr. Stephen, John, and Bertha finish their exploration of prayer through the fourth pillar Catechism of the Catholic Church. This episode isn't about merely reciting prayers; it's a deep dive into the essence and the art of praying. Fr. Stephen stresses the importance of teaching children how to relate with God through prayer - a relationship that goes beyond mere words but involves presence and contemplation.
They also bring to light the transformative power of prayer in our lives. It's not about changing God's mind but aligning our hearts to His will. They explore the Lord's Prayer and how the seven petitions encompass our desires for salvation. Additionally, in this noisy world, they make a case for silence and reflection – a time to connect with the Holy Spirit. So, if you're looking to deepen your relationship with the Lord and learn how to pray more effectively, this episode is a must-listen!
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
In this episode, Fr. Stephen, John, and Bertha finish their exploration of prayer through the fourth pillar Catechism of the Catholic Church. This episode isn't about merely reciting prayers; it's a deep dive into the essence and the art of praying. Fr. Stephen stresses the importance of teaching children how to relate with God through prayer - a relationship that goes beyond mere words but involves presence and contemplation.
They also bring to light the transformative power of prayer in our lives. It's not about changing God's mind but aligning our hearts to His will. They explore the Lord's Prayer and how the seven petitions encompass our desires for salvation. Additionally, in this noisy world, they make a case for silence and reflection – a time to connect with the Holy Spirit. So, if you're looking to deepen your relationship with the Lord and learn how to pray more effectively, this episode is a must-listen!
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
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Speaker 1:Thanks again and God bless. Welcome to the podcast. We're joining me and my friend the Friar Father Stephen Sanchez, a disc-alced Carmelite Priest, and Bertha, the big, fat tabby cat and a sweet kitty. Good morning Father Again. Good morning again. All right, bertha, don't lay on the keyboard, okay, you can stay right there. Okay, so we are continuing our conversation on the Catechism of the Catholic Church, pillar four, prayer part two, chapters two and three. And yeah, can you, sir, super quick recap the last one, and then I'll just turn it over and let you. Let you go, but no space aliens this time. Actually, I'm curious to see if space aliens come up this time too, maybe.
Speaker 2:Maybe. So we've been talking about the fourth part of the Catechism that deals with Christian prayer, and we spoke of how the Catechism developed to this point, building on the previous parts, the previous sections of the Catechism, going from Revelation to sacraments, to the life of the Christian, life in Christ, which then leads us to then Christian prayer, which means that all of it builds on one another right. So the sacraments build in Revelation, the life of Christ builds on sacraments, and then Christian prayer then builds on the life in Christ. And we've been talking about prayer in the Old Testament models of prayer, how, in the fullness of time, we have the incarnation, we have Jesus, we have the prayer of the church through the grace of the Holy Spirit, and the ultimate, most perfect prayer is then the celebration of the Eucharist, which is the prayer of God, the Son, to the Father right, and so how we participate in that perfect prayer through our participation in the Eucharist. So that's basically what we talked about a little bit about in the previous episode to this. So now we get to chapter two of this section and it is entitled the Tradition of Prayer and it covers numbers 2650 to 2696 and it is made up of, again, three articles at the Well Springs of Prayer, which is the first article, the second article, the way of prayer, and the third article being guides for prayer.
Speaker 2:So chapter two then opens up with some statements that need to be contextualized. One of the things that this chapter states is prayer cannot be reduced to the spontaneous outpouring of interior impulse. In order to pray, one must have the will to pray, one must learn to pray. The Holy Spirit teaches the children of God how to pray. So spontaneous prayer is prayer. But what the commission is teaching, what the church is teaching, is that the fullness of prayer life encompasses more than that, more than just spontaneous verbiage, right? So one must have the will to pray. By that that means that I am willing, I'm trying to communicate to the transcendent being, or, for us, I'm trying to communicate or be in communication and relationship with God, the Father right, and that I must be committed to this relationship with God through Christ, in the Holy Spirit. That is how we understand this prayer to be, that filial relationship. It is a relationship like all relationship and it takes time and commitment. Like all relationships take time and commit. The Holy Spirit leads us, but it must be a relationship of commitment and a learning to listen to the guidance and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. So, in other words, it's not a matter of just prayer of the lips, right, it is not just a matter of spontaneous prayer.
Speaker 2:Like I said before, spontaneous prayer is prayer, but it has to be more than just verbalizing or vocalizing somehow, interiorly or exteriorly, the movements within me, within my heart, within my soul, within my mind. Right, there has to be a focus. I need to know who I'm speaking to, I need to know what I am saying, to who I am and to whom I am speaking to and I am in this relationship. So that's contextualizes this. The Catechism encourages to look at the prayerfulness and the teachings of believers. That is, as in the previous episode we talked about the models of prayer and faith in the Old Testament and in the New Testament.
Speaker 2:So Article 1, then, which is entitled the Well Springs of Prayer, begins with this declaration, which is number 2652.
Speaker 2:The Holy Spirit is the living water in the heart that prays. This is taken from the story of the woman at the well, where Jesus proclaims himself to be the living water. Yet this desire that springs from the heart of the believer must be formed, and the Catechism goes on to list various sources for this formation Scripture, liturgy, the theological virtues of faith, hope and love, as well as the today of our lives. And what is being communicated to us here is that it is the Holy Spirit that is the living water that dwells in me, because I have the Holy Spirit through the grace of baptism. It is the Holy Spirit that is inspiring me and calling me to prayer, but that I have to learn how to manifest that, to understand what's going on inside of me. Just as we teach children how to speak, it is the Holy Spirit who teaches us how to pray. Okay, and so the church has all these different things like, as it says, the scripture, liturgy, the virtues, and, again, how do I pray from my today?
Speaker 1:So is this? So this sounds to me like it very much builds on the lat, the previous, or 2650, where it says it's more than just spontaneous prayer right right, that so the will. So it's one thing to say like thank you Jesus, right, right, it's another thing to meaningfully say that directed toward him.
Speaker 2:Right. Right, because spontaneous per can be, can be moved by my feelings or the circumstance of the moment. Right, and so part of what's happening here is that prayer is not only I shouldn't only pray spontaneously, I should have a regiment of prayer, I should have a committed relationship. If it is a committed relationship, I need to be in communication with you, not just when I need you, not just when I want to, but that there is a communication, there's a living relationship. Right, that prayer is that living relationship with the Father, through the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess it's also at the last episode you were talking about how, like staring at wonder at the night sky, is that, that inkling of of prayer, right the beginning? That wonder is the beginning of it yes. It's like I can. I can look at someone and go, wow, that person is awesome, or something like that, right, but that doesn't mean I have a relationship with them, correct, so it's so. That's what that will is right. Yes, that act, the actualization of the potential relationship.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. So then the second article is entitled the way of prayer, and it opens with an interesting statement that attempts to strike a balance between popular religiosity and cultural sensitivity and the Holy See's duty to be vigilant of these expressions of devotion to make sure that they are true to the tradition. Right, the Catechism says in number 2663, each church proposes to its faithful, according to its historic, social and cultural context, a language for prayer words, melodies, gestures, iconography, music. The Magisterium of the Church has the task of discerning the fidelity of these ways. Now again, it speaks of cultural sensitivity, of language, of history, right.
Speaker 2:And so, in praying, is my prayer I don't say clean, is it on track, or is it being distorted by personal devotion or personal belief or private revelation or those other things, right? So is it genuine and real, for example? Immediately, what came to mind was sometimes there are acts of penance, for example in the Philippines, you know, the crucifixion, the real crucifixion of people right, where they really nail somebody to the cross, like. Culturally, the church has always said, no, you shouldn't be doing that, no, you shouldn't be doing that, but culturally, they still do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:So the church is trying to teach them like no, it's not about that, that's not acceptable, that's not healthy.
Speaker 2:And so this is a that came to mind, because there's a distortion there that the church has been trying to correct, but the culture refuses to listen to the teaching. Right, and that it can go the other way around too. It can be not something so extreme, but for example I have spoken of this before when the missionaries in China were trying to teach the Catechism and the faith, the missionaries didn't want to use white vestments, which again they were corrected by the Holy Seer because you need to use the right color at the right time, and so. But the missionaries were like no, white is the color of mourning here, so we see it as joyful and clean and pure and they see it as mornings. Like we're trying to be careful about the cultural implication, right? So how? How important is the color of the vestment versus the celebration of the Eucharist? Yeah, Right, so, anyway, those are things and that this is kind of addressing. There there's a it's kind of trying to keep all those things in mind, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like. I like the way you said keeping it on track. I think that's a really good way of saying it and because when it says each church, it doesn't mean like the Methodist church down the street or whatever. It means like the church in Africa, the church in Mexico, the church in right.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean like one parish from another parish, unless the parish is a very ethnic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So okay, if you have a very, very ethnic church and it's all Czech or Polish or Chinese or Vietnamese or Hispanic, then you use the language that speaks to that culture, that that culture uses in their own praise and worship of God.
Speaker 1:Right, so that's what it's trying to get across.
Speaker 2:So, yep, so then. This is then followed by a short segment on prayers directed to the persons of the Blessed Trinity, to the Father, to Jesus, to the Holy Spirit, as well as prayers for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the Blessed Virgin Mary is represented again as the prayer right, which I said like this is how we should have started, but okay, never mind, yeah. Which then segues to the next article, which is the guides for prayer, which does not necessarily mean a guide for prayer like this is the way you're supposed to pray. You start here and then you say this like that doesn't mean that what it means is models of prayer. Guides are paralyzing a leader, like a guide in a mountain or a guide on a hike, right?
Speaker 2:That's what it means, that's what the guide means, that these are models of prayer. And so the third article on the guides of prayer opens with the statement that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses. So, in the Universal Church, in our Catholic Church, we have all these hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of saints that we know of that have been raised to the altars, that have been, that have gone before us in faith, mark, with a sign of faith, as we say, and recognized by the Church for their lives of holiness. Then that we have different manners and ways of praying, right? The inference being, then, that we can look to them as models or leaders, guides of prayers. So you have those who have found religious orders and you have certain approaches or views on this relationship of prayer. So you have the Franciscans, you have the Dominicans, you have the Ignatian method, you have the Benedictine method, you have, of course, the Discalced Carmelite method. Yeah, of course. And so, the suggestion being that anyone can find something that suits their taste and their personality in their pursuit of this relationship. You don't have to build it from zero, right?
Speaker 2:So then, in this article, then, there are small subsections entitled, you know, servants of prayer and under servants of prayer you have listed. You know the family as a domestic church, you have ordained ministers, you have religious, you have catechists, you have prayer groups of different types. All these are then called servants of prayer. And the final subsection of this article is entitled favorable places for prayer, and it lists churches, adoration chapels, praying with religious communities, shrines, or even having your own prayer corner. That there is places where you can pray right that are more conducive to prayer. I should say favorable places of prayer. So this is something you take into consideration as well, yeah because it's Sometimes I'm gonna.
Speaker 1:This might be a bit of a stretch. Sometimes, if your prayer corner is while you're lying down in bed before you go to sleep under the covers where it's nice and warm, you might find that your prayer life is not as productive as it could be. Maybe I don't know. I'd like to say it could be a stretch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is that Hypothetically speaking, right. So, hypothetically speaking, there may be a the temptation of maybe falling asleep before you can actually enter into. So, hypothetically speaking, of course, yeah. But the one thing I wanna say too, is we have to be careful that we don't become attached to a suitable place of prayer, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because once you enter into that relationship and again we'll have to talk about this later the place is good because it's a structure that helps me, right? So I should be praying in the chapel, right, because that's where I can stay awake. But once I've been in that relationship for a while, then I can pray when I'm walking outside, I can pray in my room, I can pray when I'm on the metro, I can pray when I'm on the bus, I can pray while I'm having some little free time in my office. Whatever, I should be able to pray anywhere. But at first you need these structures, you need the help to help develop and solidify the relationship, right? So I just wanted to say that, yeah, now we get to chapter three.
Speaker 2:So chapter three of section one is prayer in the Christian life and is entitled the Life of Prayer and is composed again of three articles expressions of prayer, the battle of prayer and the prayer in the hour of Jesus. So the intro to this chapter states that prayer is the life of the new heart. That's a number 2697. That this new heart needs to have a rhythm of praying and points to the morning and evening prayer of the liturgy of the hours and the larger cycle of the liturgical year. It points to our tradition of three major expressions of this new heart. Okay, thus the article one expresses points to vocal prayer, meditation and contemplation. So one of the things I wanna say is that this new heart begins with our baptism right, and so it can take time for it to manifest itself. The child learns to prayer depending on when we enter into the church or we're baptized. We do become this new creature, and so this new creature needs to be formed in this relationship. So that's why it's important that we teach our children how to pray right and what that means in terms of a relationship of prayer, taking into account the way Jesus was formed in his prayer life and in the life of the holy family.
Speaker 2:So, beginning with vocal prayer, vocal prayer is, as it states. It is, the vocalization of a prayer, which can either be spontaneous or the recitation of a formula prayer the our father, the Hail Mary, the glory be sub-tomb. Whatever it might be right, the most common experience for us of vocal prayer would be a liturgical setting, and that would be then the Eucharist or one of the sacraments, the celebration of the sacraments or the liturgy of the yawers right. That is our exposition to vocal prayer. The danger or the temptation that can be found in vocal prayer would be for it to become solely a recitation and not an expression of the heart. That is why it is necessary that we be present to our words and to whom we are addressing with these words. I need to be aware of who I am speaking to when I am in prayer, in this relationship right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think a really good example for that is confession. Yes, and I just went for advent and it's real easy for me. At the very beginning, you walk in forgive me, father, perhaps it has been however long, right, it's like, okay, I'm starting the car, right, I'm just doing the thing to get this started. But then, immediately after, when you actually start talking about your sinfulness or making your confession is, you're really quickly drawn back into the. What does it say? Being present to your words and who you're talking to? Yes, but really that's something now that I say that, now that my conscience is informed more, I need to be mindful of how I start my confession.
Speaker 2:Right, and it can become very habituated, in that I really don't pay attention to what I'm saying or what I'm. You know the encounter right, the encounter with Christ in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and it's necessary that we do become more aware.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, man, that's probably something any priests out there that are listening on. Y'all's end too. Yes, because you're praying as much as we're praying. You know to not just go through the motions for the 150th time today you know, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:So then the next phase of prayer that is addressed is meditation, and meditation is a more focused consideration of either a scripture passage, a mystery of the faith or of the divine presence that dwells within us. Right, st Teresa of Jesus? St Teresa of Avila tells us that a focused consideration of our vocal prayers can transform them into meditation. For example, in your case of reciting Lord, I am not worthy, right, yeah, right, you are considering what it is that you're stating and you're entering into a meditation on that, or whether a conviction or meditation you're entering into. What am I saying and who am I saying it to? So it becomes a meditation before you enter into the rite of communion. So the Catechism points out that there are many methods or guides for meditations, and here guides means actually outlines, not guide a person, but guide an outline or guides for meditation. But the most important consideration is its support for the disciple to advance in its transformation under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So my meditation, and there's, like meditations on the gospels, meditations on certain passages. During Holy Week, there's meditations on the seven last words, right? So I would suggest that you each individual investigate different ways of engaging in, for example, in Lectio Divina. How do I the divine reading of sacred scripture and how do I pray with scripture? And there you can find lots of guides online. And so which is a way of meditating with the sacred scripture, whether it's the scripture of the day or whether you want to go through the whole Bible or parts of the Bible to just investigate into? How can I learn to meditate upon God's Word? And it'd be more than just vocal recitation and more than just pondering, but actually entering into that, because for us, scripture is God's living Word, and so the spirit of Christ is present, so the Holy Spirit is there, and so it's a matter of entering into that and allowing the Spirit to inform me and to enlighten me. Right, so that's part of what the meditation is about. So the next section that is addressed is the prayer of contemplation.
Speaker 2:The Catechism gives a very simple overview of a deep, committed relationship of the disciple with the Lord. As in all things, there are different schools of thought. On this subject of contemplative prayer, there are two opposing schools of thought One, that contemplation is for a few. The other, contemplation, is for everyone. The key here is, as the Catechism states, that contemplation is a gift. There must be a growth into this level of committed relationship. All we can do is prepare ourselves and dispose ourselves to receive this gift if it is God's will that we receive it. The entire person is focused on an attentive to the divine presence. It is a relationship with moments of intensity and, like any relationship, requires effort and commitment. So, for example, myself and the Carmelites, we belong to the school of thought that contemplation is for everyone, because that's what heaven is. Heaven is contemplating the glory of God and the mercy of God. Then we move on to Article 2, the battle of prayer.
Speaker 2:This article begins with a statement that prayers both a gift and a challenge, the challenge being that prayer requires effort and commitment. The battle is the effort required are coming to understand that what prayer is and what prayer is not. So the battle that we're engaged in is the culture of utility and the culture of efficacy that we're in sees prayer as a waste of time and sees prayer as doing nothing. But there's also, then, for the believer that is committed, there's also the battle against dryness in prayer, against temptations in prayer and against distractions in prayer. So I guess it speaks more about our brokenness and our woundedness and trying to get through all that as we enter deeper into that relationship with our heavenly Father, and how that relationship with Him then begins to heal these things.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's something that I've also heard has brought this climate around. Now. I don't know if this is the right way of saying it, but the goal of prayer is not to change God's mind on something, but to change our heart to be more correctly oriented or dispossesioned to God's will, and so I guess that's I can see that being part of the battle too. Right, like there's this thing I want, and, as I'm praying for it, it's about learning about what's God's will in that not necessarily just what is this thing that I want? Healing, better job, whatever kind of stuff. Right, correct?
Speaker 2:So, then, the response to these difficulties, to this battle, right then, speaks of a determined filial trust. Do I have within me a trust that God, the Father, desires my well-being, desires my healing desires, my holiness, and continually calls to me, in spite of my brokenness, my woundedness, whatever it might be, even my rebellious heart? Right that I have to have a filial trust, and part of that is that I need to be constant in my efforts to grow in my commitment to this relationship, my side of the relationship, and that this relationship I have to learn that this is significant to me as to who I am, not just as a disciple but as a person, that this defines me, my committed relationship to my Heavenly Father. Okay, so then, this leads us to Article 3, the prayer of the hour of Jesus, which refers to Christ's priestly prayer is found in the Gospel of John, chapter 17.
Speaker 2:And also, that is the prayer in the hour of difficulty, as Jesus is facing, then, his passion, the betrayal by his disciples, and the passion that comes, so that this section, then prayer in the Christian life, leads to the exposition of the model Christian prayer, which is the Lord's prayer or the our Father, and the exposition of the seven petitions, as found in that prayer. And that's where this section ends in terms of the exposition to prayer. So I would say, as you get ready to listen to this section on prayer, to take some time to maybe listen to this podcast a couple of times as you start listening to the Catechism in a year. I don't know where Father Schmidt or he is now, but I guess something to help you to understand his, his covering of the Catechism in a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we've got a lot of Catechism episodes actually, and I love going back and listening to them because there's so much and there's no way to digest it all in one sitting, right, and sometimes we're a little bit deeper and sometimes it's a good 30,000 foot view kind of thing. And I think the biggest takeaway that for me when it comes to prayer, or takeaway realization as I've, you know, hopefully slowly matured in my discipleship is this last part, where it's where you were saying it's, it's not just part of like what you do, but it's who you are Right. That just has struck me as much as the whole you risk. Prayer is initiated by God, right, and then so you're praying as a response to his initiation, and so all of that goes back to those kind of these kind of philosophical understandings of like what we are as a human. And if you, if you don't really understand that, then you don't understand why, like prayer it's, it's not optional, it's not nice, it's necessary.
Speaker 1:I think yes, it is, it's all for salvation. Yeah, all that stuff is is just so interesting to me and and it's I think it's motivating to. It's kind of like when you're trying to lose weight, you lose a couple pounds, you lose a couple bit, a little bit more and a little bit more, and so as you grow, I wish I could pray my way to way.
Speaker 1:That'd be very awesome, right, but it's like you know that you get that momentum and you start building up or just like a relationship, because that's what it is right.
Speaker 2:The more you know somebody and then the more you like spending time with them it just keeps increasing Because you become aware of I say you become aware of your profundity, and by that I mean you become aware of your depth. You become aware that there is much more to who you are as a person. You become aware of your capacities, that relationship with God, inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the way God works in his love and his mercy in your life, everything, it affects everything, and I think it's necessary for us to spend time in perfect. I think one of the reasons we find ourselves in such straights nowadays is because most people don't spend time in prayer, they don't spend time in silence, they don't spend time exploring their own profundity, their own depths, which helps them then to center themselves and become more objective in their perspective and their interaction in the world and with others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you absolutely can't do that if every second of your day is filled with some kind of information dumped from the internet or you know whatever, and so it's. It does make me yeah. It makes me think a lot about kids, because they're, they're in this age of it's like I don't know they're, they're born and like you know, as soon as they pop out of the womb like boom, there's a cell phone in their hand or something like that you know, and so they don't know how to exist without that noise in their life.
Speaker 1:And so I don't know how you're supposed to ever grow in your self understanding if you don't have that silence to reflect.
Speaker 2:Right, right Amen.
Speaker 1:Says the guys who are making noise on the internet. It's, it's balanced, right. Like I have no problem putting my phone down and walking away and not picking it up for the rest of the day.
Speaker 2:Oh me, you know what I mean. Yeah, I'm the same way. I am the same way. Yeah, boy, no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is. This is good. This is definitely going to be something I come back to a bunch, and I I you said it too I think this is going to be something we continue to talk about, because and we will. Yeah, anything that can help somebody grow in this is it's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we'll have to talk about carmelite spirituality, carmelite prayer Teresa John, Therese, Edith Stein, yeah, yeah, all right, father, I hope we're going to wrap this up and catch you loose.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everybody who joined us today, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, leave us a like, a comment, all that kind of stuff. Subscribe, share us with others. All the good things, Share it. Okay, all right, see y'all later, god bless.