Embark on a journey into the heart of spiritual doctrine with Father Stephen Sanchez, a Discalced Carmelite Priest, as we confront the truths about Satan, the reality of angels, and their pivotal place in Catholic Christian faith. As we explore these profound teachings, you're promised an awakening to the deeper layers of our creed. By acknowledging the existence of spiritual beings, we not only adhere to the scriptures but also preserve the integrity of our beliefs, encompassing God, heaven, and the soul.
In a compelling narrative that mirrors the dramatic fall of Anakin Skywalker, we dissect the origins of Satan, his role as both accuser and tempter, and the intricacies of good and evil in theological discourse. Father Sanchez guides us through the theological landscape, where we examine the misuse of free will that spurred the rebellion of angels, leading to the concept of evil as a finite choice, rather than an absolute force. This episode is an invitation to understand the profound implications of pride, free will, and the power of God's love even for the fallen, an exploration that promises to enlighten and challenge the faithful and curious alike.
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
Embark on a journey into the heart of spiritual doctrine with Father Stephen Sanchez, a Discalced Carmelite Priest, as we confront the truths about Satan, the reality of angels, and their pivotal place in Catholic Christian faith. As we explore these profound teachings, you're promised an awakening to the deeper layers of our creed. By acknowledging the existence of spiritual beings, we not only adhere to the scriptures but also preserve the integrity of our beliefs, encompassing God, heaven, and the soul.
In a compelling narrative that mirrors the dramatic fall of Anakin Skywalker, we dissect the origins of Satan, his role as both accuser and tempter, and the intricacies of good and evil in theological discourse. Father Sanchez guides us through the theological landscape, where we examine the misuse of free will that spurred the rebellion of angels, leading to the concept of evil as a finite choice, rather than an absolute force. This episode is an invitation to understand the profound implications of pride, free will, and the power of God's love even for the fallen, an exploration that promises to enlighten and challenge the faithful and curious alike.
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
Welcome to the my Friend the Friar podcast and thanks for listening. If you like my Friend the Friar and want to support us, please consider subscribing or following us. If you haven't already done so, and if you found us on YouTube, then don't forget to click the notification bell when you subscribe so you'll be notified of new episodes when they release. Thanks again and God bless.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say this this time and you're not allowed to laugh. Okay, I don't know what like you ruined it now. I just giggle the whole time. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me and my friend, the friar Father Stephen Sanchez, a Discalced Carmelite Priest. Good afternoon, father.
Speaker 3:Good afternoon.
Speaker 2:One of these days, I'm going to get replaced with some kind of AI robot, and that's what it's going to sound like. Actually, no, I guess. Nowadays it all is getting so real that it would sound like a normal person talking, huh.
Speaker 3:Yes, we wouldn't be able to tell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not robot, john. Co-host. Okay, weird, but you know what's not weird. What Satan? Satan is not weird, but you know what's not weird.
Speaker 3:What.
Speaker 2:Satan. Satan is not weird, Well actually, he is weird actually. That guy, he's that guy. You know, everybody knows someone like that. Oh yeah, yeah. So we're talking about the reality of Satan and we're going to double dip a little bit from some of the things that we talked about in our angel episode Some there.
Speaker 2:Which A little bit from the creed, yeah, yeah, which is appropriate because, as we keep saying, it's a tapestry our faith, right, we're all over the place and this it's a tapestry our faith. We're all over the place and this, it's all interconnected, right, and this is also.
Speaker 3:This is a little bit because you're a scholarly type person who likes to read and research and you happen to have you just froze on me what?
Speaker 2:oh, you froze on me too. Um okay, oh, my goodness, it's gonna be one of those internet those days yeah um, so yeah, so you, you had this. Um, how did? Why did you have this laying around, this document? Were you just bored? One day I gave a class to.
Speaker 3:I think it was adult formation at a parish and it was on the reality of Satan having to do with. I think it was during RCIA. An RCIA class and I was part of the RCIA class was on that right and that was part of the RCIA class was on that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because this is one of the things that you'll touch on here is that this is a part of our faith.
Speaker 3:Yes, is not going away.
Speaker 2:Right, but yeah, this is also. I think the Angel episode was really popular. I think a lot of people find this stuff curious, Maybe people who aren't necessarily Catholic or Christian. They're just kind of like fantasy nerdy kind of, you know.
Speaker 3:Or yeah, extraordinary or something Paranormally kind of stuff, paranormally stuff.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 3:X-Files.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but this is Chupacabra. Have you ever heard of the Goatman in Denton? Or there's a bridge or something like that. I think no.
Speaker 3:In Denton.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's all sorts of weird stuff out there, but this stuff is weird and real. I guess that's the important part. That's the takeaway this is weird and real. I guess that's the important part.
Speaker 3:That's the takeaway.
Speaker 2:This is real Okay, so I will stop with the sillies.
Speaker 3:So I think, the reason, yeah, the reason we wanted to do this was we'd been talking about the creed, We'd done the thing on the angels, we had done an episode on the last four things, and so it all is kind of tied together. And so I want to touch on this a little bit more, on the reality of Satan. And for us then, as Catholics in our creed we profess that God is the creator of heaven and earth and all that is visible and invisible. So then, for us, as Catholic Christians, and part of that invisible reality would be the spirit world right, or the spiritual beings that we tend to refer to as angels. And the first thing I want to quote is from the Catechism, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, number 328, that says the existence of the spiritual, non-corporeal beings that sacred scripture usually calls angels is a truth of the faith.
Speaker 3:The witness of scripture is as clear as the unanimity of tradition. And I wanted to bring that up because a lot of times I think we can relegate the spiritual beings or angelic beings. That's the language we have to use, because that's the language everybody's used to. We tend to relegate the angelic beings to cute little cherubims, or it's part of the Renaissance paintings or the cute little angels around Christmas time, right, and so those kinds of things, and it's kind of sort of almost like almost on the same thing, as like leprechauns and fairies and sprites, right.
Speaker 2:It's like no, this is different, like it's part of our Christian mythology Right, right.
Speaker 3:Right and the truth is that they are actual spiritual beings. They are actual spiritual beings.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what's funny? If you take that away, then in the same breath you can take away God, because God is a spiritual being, being, and then you can take away heaven, and then you can take away your soul. And now, before you know it, christianity is just like a personal philosophy or lifestyle, and it's a way that you choose to kind of be a good person, right, and so it's important, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a. The logical conclusion of that would be interesting, right? So if there is no real spiritual world, then if there is no God, then we go now to secular humanism. And then the question then for secular humanism is why bother? Yes, yeah, so anyway, getting back to then the creed and this is part of our faith, right, and I think we need to pay a little bit more attention to that In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in number 329, which is the one right after the number that I quoted, number 329, which is the one right after the number that I quoted, they quote St Augustine saying, in the understanding that the term angel is the name of their office.
Speaker 3:We talked about this in the last episode on angels. Right, it's their office, it's not their nature. Their nature is not angel, there's not angelic nature nature, it's a spiritual nature that we happen to call angels. And and again, sometimes in a lot of um, religious writing and spiritual writing, they'll talk about the angelic beings, right, and, yeah, that's the language that we use, but theologically, that's not a good way to use that, right, right, that language needs to be educated.
Speaker 3:But anyway, then, in the numbers from the Catechism, in Numbers 330 through 334,. We can gather some information from these numbers, and these are like bullet points. One is that these spiritual beings are servants and messengers, that they are purely spiritual, that they have spiritual intelligence and a spiritual will, that they are personal, individual entities and that they are immortal. They're not eternal because they were created, but they are immortal. Their perfection surpasses all visible creatures. And another point is that they were created for the second person of the Trinity, for God the Son, and they are meant to serve God the Son. Another point is that we, as church and by church I mean all elements of that community church triumphant church, militant church suffering the old language that we use, right, that's the old language.
Speaker 3:Church triumphant church, militant church, suffering the old language that we use, right that's the old language that the church in her liturgy joins in the adoration of these spiritual beings. In their adoration we would say angelic adoration.
Speaker 3:Again, we have to use the word angelic because, we don't have a good word to capture that reality. So in their adoration of God we join them. Our liturgy is a way of joining in their adoration of God. And another point is this goes back to the guardian angel thing right, Each person is watched over and prayed for by the angels and that each one has an angel assigned to us to pray for us, intercede for us and hopefully guide us and enlighten us on our journey. So you have these spiritual beings that were created and then in the Catechism, from Numbers 391 to 395,. The Catechism addresses what we know as, or refer to as, the fall of the angels and the and in Father Pascal Parenti.
Speaker 3:I'm taking a quote from Father Pascal Parenti and his book is entitled the Angels the Catholic Teaching on the Angels. I'm quoting him where he says the angels were the first splendors created to reflect the glory of the eternal. First creative act must have produced a creature to the image and similitude of God, a creature able to understand love, thank and praise God. Now, before later on we'll be talking a little bit about the whole Dionysus, the pseudo-Dionysus, Pseudodionyses, the Arepagite, yeah, and some of that Greek understanding and philosophy where this comes from, so that those creatures closest to God are a greater reflection, or a pure reflection, of God's glory, of God's holiness right. So then, this is where Father Pascal Parenti of God's holiness right.
Speaker 3:So then, this is where Fr Pascal Parenti is getting this from, right. That then they must be splendiferous, right? These first creatures, and those of us that are Tolkien nerds, we can go back to the creation of world and how Tolkien uses also that same idea of the greatness and the beauty of the first spiritual beings that were created. So then, as St Augustine reminds us that angels are spirits, but it is not because they are spirits that they are angels. They are only angels when they are fulfilling an office. An angel is the Greek word, or angelorum is the Latin word. It also means messenger, and that's their office. So, when they're not being messengers, you can't call them angels, right? Anyway, when they're on break, when they're on break, when they're on break, yeah.
Speaker 3:Or whatever that looks like for angels or those spiritual beings. So then they're spiritual beings and referring to then the fall of the angels, first we have to recognize that angels were created as good. Recognize that angels were created as good when we refer to fallen angels or the fall of the angels, the fallen angels in their intelligence and will chose knowingly, willingly, to rebel by rejecting God and somehow, because in that rebellion somehow they seduced man to rebel, also Right so theologically speaking. And again now we have to get into kind of speculative theology.
Speaker 2:Betty's favorite.
Speaker 3:Yes, the difference between the spiritual beings or the angels, the difference between their fall and our fall, is that angelic? I hate again, there's no other word to use. Yeah, yeah, spiritual being is pure and their intelligence is pure, and so their fall then is that much more greater, and for them it's irrevocable. They cannot be redeemed. It's a choice that they have made for all eternity, and so that's part of that understanding. That's why we, as Catholics, we reject the idea of universalism that Satan will be redeemed, right, so the fallen angels cannot be redeemed, because this is. It's an irrevocable choice that they've chosen to, an irrevocable choice that they've made in separating themselves and rebelling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's something kind of interesting here. Yeah, and there's something kind of interesting here. Somebody might pick up on and go oh so if they can't be redeemed, then you're saying there's something God can't do, which means he's not all powerful, which means he's not God. But that's not what it is. No, it's their choice is like they have free will the way we have free will in the same way God chooses not to interfere with our free will Right.
Speaker 3:And so for us it'd be like there is capacity for us to be reconciled and redeemed because we can be educated, because our intelligence is not pure Right, our intelligence is not complete and whole, just as theirs is Complete and whole, just as theirs is. And so their choice was a choice of a complete break, knowing that it would be a complete break. Right, and so we can be redeemed. Right. And one of the things that someone pointed out to me once was in the Garden of Eden, right, so there's the two trees, there's the tree of good and evil and there is the tree of life, right, no-transcript, and so there'd be no capacity for redemption. So, again, that's speculative, so I did not follow that down the road.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting thought, though, too, because then it— I think it was Father Mike, I heard talking about all of God's consequences are also a corrective measure.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so casting them out of the garden would have basically saved humanity, right. You can't stay here, because then you would have ended up eating from this, right? Yeah, it's an interesting thought.
Speaker 3:And so then, uh-oh, you froze again. There you are. Okay, thank you, jesus.
Speaker 3:Of Satan or the devil we are speaking of the highest of the evil spirits, and for us to have a clear background for a theologically correct understanding of the devil, we'll have to presuppose and include all that has been understood about angelic beings in general. So you'd have to go back to our episodes on angels and go back to our other episodes on the last four things and that right, so we don't have time to do all that all over again. But we mean the highest angel because, again going back to Scripture, where Lucifer was considered, again through rabbinic literature, old Testament commentators, old Testament theology, right, the rabbis, that Lucifer was the morning star, that Lucifer was the most beautiful and the most intelligent and the most most of the spiritual beings. So for us as Judeo-Christians and for us as Catholic Christians, the devil is not a mere mythological explanation or a reason for the existence of evil in the world.
Speaker 3:And Satan or devil is not some mythological personification of evil, right, the whole idea of the horns and the tail and the trident, right, it's not a symbol that represents something else, it is an actual creature, a real creature. So for us, then the existence of the devil cannot be denied. It's part of our faith is that there is evil and there is Satan. There is the devil, right, and the devil can never be understood as independent from God. We always have to understand that angels were created or spiritual beings were created, and Satan is a spiritual being that was created, so he's not the counterweight to God, right.
Speaker 3:Satan is a creature?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he's not the god of evil, correct? Yeah. And if he was, in theory, right, if he was the most beautiful and the highest, would that be because he was closest to God and would have reflected God the most fully?
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, that's part of the whole rabbinic literature. Is that right? Because he was the closest, he was the most beautiful, the most gifted, right, and so there's something there about him. And also because he was the most beautiful, the most intelligent, the most gifted, then his fall was that much greater.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he's—and to be so close to being. God right To be so close, but you're not, you're just short.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, and so he as the reflection then of God, the best reflection of God that can be in a creature. Then the fall was that much greater. So a little bit just to touch on some Old Testament creature. Then the fall was that much greater, right? So a little bit just to touch on some Old Testament stuff. So the Hebrew verb Satan or Satan I'm not sure how to pronounce that meant in Hebrew, meant someone that opposes, so it's an opposition or to oppose something. It also means harassment. It also means harassing through accusation, where we get the term the accuser right that Satan is referred to as the accuser, and so this verb Satan or Satan is the root from which comes the substantive use of the angel who hindered Balaam, if we remember that from the Book of Numbers. Right that whole thing. And also in Hebrew culture, society in a legal sense, of any accuser or prosecutor when you were brought to trial, right to the tribunal.
Speaker 3:Again, in the Old Testament, among the sons of God, in Job, chapter 1, verses 6 through 12, there is a reference to the hasatan, the accuser or the adversary. Apparently Satan or Hasatan had the task of testing and accusing men In the first book of Chronicles, chapter 21, verse 1,. Satan not only patrolled the earth and reported man's sins or mistakes to God, he was also the tempter of man to sin and was seen as Israel's adversary as well as God's adversary. And that's where some of the confusion starts to come in, right. There's kind of sort of like a good God and a bad God, right, and the serpent in Genesis was eventually identified with the devil, through whose envy death entered the world. So part of the rabbinic literature was that—I'll talk about this a little bit later on. Until I'm mentioning this later is that Satan had a role. Lucifer had a role, and his role was to be guardian and teacher. Right, and because of pride and because of his misunderstanding or the inability to understand God's love and care for humanity, this is where, then, the fall happens in him and the angels that follow him, or the spiritual beings that follow him.
Speaker 3:Now a little bit in the New Testament. So when early Christian writers were translating this Hebrew word, satan, basically they took, they transliterated Satan into Greek with a definitive article, thereby signifying the adversary of God in a very special sense, and the word that they used was diabolos. So devil, the devil had the connotation of a slanderous accuser of the evil one, as we were told in the Gospel of Matthew. He is the accuser, as we were told in the Book of the Apocalypse. He's the adversary, as we're told in the first letter of Peter.
Speaker 3:He is the enemy, as we're also told in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13. He was the tempter of Christ, and we're told that he was a murderer, a liar and the father of murderers and liars in the Gospel of John, chapter 8, verses 39 through 44. So then, what happens here is that there's an idea of a personal. So then, what happens here is that there's an idea of a personal, superhuman power of evil, right, and this then becomes a constant and integral part of the New Testament thought. This is the enemy that the community is fighting against the fourth ladder in council. And don't ask me what year that was, because I don't remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the.
Speaker 3:Fourth Lateran.
Speaker 2:Council probably had to be in the 1300s, 1200s, probably 1200s 1300s.
Speaker 3:It was the other day, yeah, yeah, just yesterday. The Fourth Lateran Council taught that the entire invisible world, including these spiritual beings and those spiritual beings that are fallen, is radically created. In other words, they do not exist outside of God's will for them to exist. And so they say God, by his mighty power, created together in the beginning of time both creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal, namely the angelic and the earthly, and afterwards the human, as it were, an intermediate creature composed of body and spirit.
Speaker 3:This creation was effected through God's Logos, the second person of the Trinity, god the Son, as St Paul affirms in the first letter to the Colossians, in verse 16, where Paul says In him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominations, or principalities or powers. All things were created by him and in him. Now, those are Jewish categories of these spiritual beings in terms of thrones, dominations, principalities and powers. Right, excuse me. And the reason Paul is addressing this is because this was again another corrective that people were spending a lot of time theologizing and spiritualizing and developing a spirituality of devotion to these spiritual beings and some sort of fear of these spiritual beings and even worship of these spiritual beings thinking that they controlled everything, right. And so then here Paul is correcting that it's like no, no, those spiritual beings are creatures. Worship belongs to God and only to God, right? So this is what he's trying to do here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's also interesting the reason they're making this too, saying that the however you want to call it the invisible world, right, the spiritual reality was created is because, if it wasn't created by God, if instead it's like the realm in which God lives, then there's something that exists before God for him to exist in, in which case he can't be God. Correct, right? So it's really interesting how you get to these kind of thought logic problems that you have to then solve and then you go, oh okay.
Speaker 2:Well, then now reality makes a little bit more sense right, right, right, and then the.
Speaker 3:In the sacramentum mundi, which is an encyclopedia of theology, there's a quote that I want to cite and that is referring to the Lateran Council's decree. So the intention of the decree by the Lateran Council was to emphasize the universal validity of this principle, so that there is no absolute primal evil, only finite evil due solely to the free decision of creatures. And so what the author is trying to communicate here is that by there being no absolute primal evil, he means that there was no evil in the beginning. It is not a part of the essential fabric of creation or of the creative will of God, so that evil came later right, or the fall came later right. So an understanding is in that evil is a distortion, it's askew from the original intention of God. This also points to the sovereignty of the gift of free will. If God is God, so why didn't he not let Satan sin? Because that would be a violation of God's will, same thing with Adam and Eve. That would be a violation of a gift, and this points then to the importance and the immensity of the gift of free will that we need to be more appreciative of right.
Speaker 3:So, as I said, according to some earlier writers, some rabbinical teachers and stuff. They saw that Lucifer's role was that of a tester, and part of the tester was to be like a guardian, to be someone who would care for and to help and to do problem solving, or to present problems and help them kind of think it out and come to a choice right, educate and sort of help them to come to wisdom. And so these same commentators say that then what happens is that Lucifer then begins to take pride in his role as teacher, as guardian, as a mentor, right. And in that pride then he stopped being a tester or someone that would help people make good decisions or humanity make good decisions.
Speaker 3:He became jealous of the fact that God has this special love for the human person. And because of God's love for this human person, when Satan rebelled against God, he also then seduces humanity to sin, also to also rebel. And that's where Satan is transformed from a tester to a tempter right, from a tester to a tempter right. And this is again part of the whole idea of the pride and his pride. And the pride is the root of all sin. That is why Satan fell and why most of our sins are based upon some permutation of pride, right, because Adam and Eve he tempted Adam and Eve into bracketing. God's will like well, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:You know that god said don't do this and don't do that, but he was like no no it's just you know, he just doesn't want you to be gods right and they go like hmm, yeah, it's basically. It's basically what I'm an adam and eve were saying is like well, I want to be a god too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's interesting that this man, this pesky free will it, causes all sorts of problems Because, like you were saying that evil is the how did you say it? It's like the skew you're doing. It's not the intentionw you're doing. It's You're not. It's not the intention of God.
Speaker 3:Right, it's skewed, it's distorted, it's corrupt. It's a corruption of God's design.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and thus sin is evil, because sin is. You're missing that mark Right, it makes a lot of sense. It's really I like that, sorry, not to say I like sin. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Okay, there's going to be a lot of comments on that one, yeah, oops. Okay, there's going to be a lot of comments on that one, yeah, oops. So in Sacramentum Mundi also the Encyclopedia of Theology I took another quote from there, and that is that the power of the devil and of his subordinate spirits, those spiritual beings that followed him, those spiritual beings that he seduced to follow him in, to rebel also against God. So the teaching for us as Catholic Christians is that the power of the devil and his subordinate spirits is already broken, since the kingship of God has already begun with Jesus' coming and Jesus' work. So the coming of Christ, then, is the breaking of the power of the tempter. The power of the devil has been broken right, and so this is something that we have to remember, because sometimes people you know again movies or bad theology and you know they might be entertaining, and there's a couple of movies that I enjoy that are very, very, very bad theology, but the storyline or whatever is interesting.
Speaker 3:right? He said no, they exist only because God allows them to exist, and even though they're contrary and rebellious to God, god continues to love them because they're his creation and he loves them still. Right, and so one of the things that we have to do is we have to make sure we don't fall into that dualism, right, kind of sort of like God and devil are of the same nature, the same power, or the same nature or the same power or the same importance. It's like no, satan and the fallen angels are creatures just like any other creature.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wonder we can. I think we need to break this one into a couple episodes but let's end with a little speculation, because I think it need to break this one into a couple episodes. But let's end with a little speculation because I think it's just so, I don't know, it's interesting to my imagination, right. Like I think of they're finite, so they exist in time, right?
Speaker 3:They're not infinite.
Speaker 2:And I wonder anyone who's seen Star Wars, right, the, I guess episodes like one, two and three, the prequel sequels, the originals. Well, the prequel sequels.
Speaker 3:The ones with like Anakin and stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so Anakin has this very slow corruption and then eventually he breaks right. And I wonder what it was like for the fallen angels, because their knowledge is perfect, so it can't be changing over time, or but humanity didn't always exist, so maybe it was, they were fine until god, until they, but well, but then they would have had to know I don't know you know, I mean yes and that, and that's just it.
Speaker 3:That's one of the, the one of the, the spec of humanity that God revealed to the spiritual beings, his plan or his desire, his plan of creating this creature that was both spiritual and corporeal. And that is where then Lucifer revolts right and the archangel Michael celebrates God, like wow, really, I would never have thunk that right. And so he celebrates that. And there's a movie with Christopher Walken who plays one of the angels, and Viggo Mortensen also plays Satan, and he plays it very well. He's got like maybe a five minute, three minute appearance, but like dang.
Speaker 2:Is this like a 90s movie, or what?
Speaker 3:80s movie.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll have to. What 80s movie, 90s movie, yeah? Okay, well, I'll have to find it and I'll send you the title, but anyway. So Christopher Walken plays the Angel Gabriel, who's rebelling right, which is impossible because Angel.
Speaker 1:Gabriel right.
Speaker 3:So anyway again bad theology, bad spirituality, but anyway. But it's interesting because the way the the director, the author of the story, writes it is that this, this rebellious angel, refers to human beings as talking monkeys, and so it kind of shows that kind of like you know, sort of disgust and kind of like, right, it's like ugh, you talking monkeys, right. And so it sort of shows that kind of like yeah, I don't understand why God would create you, right? Yeah, so that's part of all that speculation. Was that because they didn't understand, or they couldn't understand, or Satan couldn't appreciate or understand the creation of humanity, that he rebels? That's where the rebellion begins. Right, he might be their teacher, but he just is kind of disgusted with like, why does God see anything in you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and think about it, if he is so close to God that he reflects God most fully. And then, oh the audacity, you're going to even take the form of one of them, exactly Like oh, disgusting, right. So it's super, super interesting because then you can even think of it. Should, I hope I pray, make all of us right included. You should be like how beautiful am I? Yes, that God chose to take on this kind of form.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, super interesting, and we as being sort of a mixed creation we're both physical and spiritual. There's something there in terms of our vocation as human persons is. According to the theology of the church, then, is that we are called to in us. All of creation praises God, because we were being the physical creatures, and all physical creation, through us, is meant to praise and glorify God, and creation is finds voice in our incarnation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we kind of bridge the gap. Yes, yeah, man, very interesting, very interesting, yeah, so cool. All right, next time we're going to dive even deeper into Satan and the fallen angels and stuff like that. So thanks for this and everyone thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3:You're welcome and we'll see you next time. God bless, bye, bye.