My Friend the Friar
A podcast where we learn about our faith and share what it takes to live a Catholic Christian life through conversations and contemplations with my friend the friar, a Discalced Carmelite Priest.
My Friend the Friar
Navigating Life's Storms
Ever found yourself caught in a storm of confusion and wondering how to discern God’s voice amidst the chaos? In this episode, John and Father Stephen discuss navigating life's tumultuous moments with trust and faith. Drawing from Bishop Barron's insights on the story of Jonah, they explore how resisting God's will can lead to turmoil, symbolized by the storm Jonah faces. They illustrate the consequences of neglecting divine guidance and encourage perseverance, even when it feels overwhelming.
Difficulties don’t equate to sinfulness. Father Stephen and John discuss the importance of having reasonable and informed expectations in our spiritual journey, guided by religious practices and introspection. Join us to explore how embracing hardships and growing in detachment can lead to true freedom in Christ, bringing clarity and peace amidst life's chaos.
Word on Fire Show - Bishop Barron
Hearing the Voice of God
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Speaker 2:Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me and my friend the friar Father Stephen Sanchez, a disc house Carmelite priest. Good afternoon, father.
Speaker 1:Good wet afternoon.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, it's a very rainy day today, all day Since three in the morning today, all day Since three in the morning. Yeah, I've been up since five and it was raining, so we're washing away. The rain is just kind of coincidental to something we're going to talk about here, just pure chance. But before we get started, you've been busy. Yes Are you doing okay, yeah, you getting the rest you need.
Speaker 1:No, but you know what can you do.
Speaker 2:What can you do? What can you do when your life is so full and hectic and you can't seem to catch a break? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Trusting God and keep going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's talk about that, I guess. So I saw this video once upon a time, no idea when I saw it. To be honest, it was by Bishop Barron and his video. I guess I can put a link.
Speaker 1:Maybe I can put a link yeah, you can do it in the video.
Speaker 2:It's called Hearing the Voice of God and super paraphrasing, from what I can remember is it had to do with Jonah and he was saying that the storm. He was talking about the storm, right, because Jonah God says hey, jonah, go preach to the.
Speaker 1:Ninevites.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Jonah's like, nah, I'm out. So he gets on a boat and goes in the complete opposite direction, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so then there's this big old storm no-transcript. So like God sends the storm and the storm, it symbolizes Jonah's inability to escape God's will. It's kind of what he was getting after, because Jonah's obvious he's not following what God commanded him to do. Right, he said go do this, he said no. So thus the storm is the consequence, the inability to escape God, and he was kind of playing with a bunch of other things. I think, like the storm could be sinfulness or right, not Sinfulness, as in not doing God's will.
Speaker 1:I guess Resisting yeah, resisting yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I thought it was really interesting and I was contemplating this video and what Bishop Barron was exploring, and there were some things that some of the things I was considering. Some of us, like Jonah, we very clearly hear God's voice in our lives, so to speak. We very clearly understand what it is that God wants us to do and, like Jonah, we just run. I don't want to do this thing, I want to do it my way, right. But some of us also, we struggle to hear God's voice because we can't see past the storm, whatever the storm might be in our lives hardships, things, right, I don't know my situation, my job, my family, my whatever. It's almost like we're distracted, I guess, is how I could say it a different way. I am too maybe egotistical, I'm too wrapped up in my experience and how this feels and what this is like, and so I can't see past that to understand that God has a will and a desire for me in my life.
Speaker 2:And I guess the last thing that it could be or that people might experience with some of us, you know, we just miss God's voice, like we never heard God to begin with, for some reason or another, right God might be saying Father Stephen, I want you to go do this, but you're just, I don't know. You're not paying attention, I guess, or you're unwilling to pay attention, perhaps. So the question I guess that I remember him kind of posing to, is if, instead, you don't resist the voice of God. What happens in our lives? And I just, you know, I was just sitting with it and thinking about it and I think I was in my backyard and our little backyard is a total mess, like it's a nightmare right now. It is overgrown, there's weeds everywhere, the fence is falling down.
Speaker 2:I know, I know, but it kind of brought rise to this metaphor, to kind of answer it in my mind what happens if you, if you resist the voice of God? And so I like to, I like to garden or farm is is like when I was a little kid I wanted to be a farmer. Right, I like growing stuff, I like the smell of dirt, I like planting things and seeing them grow and and all that. It could very well be. If I'm really honest, I might like the thought of it more than I like actually doing it. I don't know, maybe when I was younger I liked it a lot more than I do now, because my back is always hurting. It's like it's hard work, you know digging and pulling weeds and all that stuff. So I'm just old now, so maybe I like the thought of it more than I actually like doing it. But the thing that I was contemplating in response to what happens when we resist God's voice, god's will, what happens if we don't resist God's voice, god's will? I'm looking at this little flower bed we have in our backyard and, like I said, it's a nightmare. There's like a dandelion growing that's almost as tall as I am at this point and the kind of metaphor here is I know from my gardening experience that nature doesn't like bare soil. If you were to pull all the grass, pull the weeds, pull the whatever and just leave bare soil like nature does not like it, it will grow. Whatever in the world it can get to grow, whether you like it or not. Right To cover it up, right? So you get all these weeds and stuff, if you.
Speaker 2:So I'm thinking about this garden and I'm thinking about how it might symbolize our lives. And if we this is kind of what I came up with if we plant things in the garden but we don't care for it properly, it's going to die. Right? If I try to force things to grow in the garden that aren't right for the conditions, they're going to die. If we don't cultivate the garden at all and we just leave it bare, god's going to allow anything to grow in the garden, anything to grow in the garden.
Speaker 2:But if we cooperate with God and we plant what's right for the conditions and we take proper care of the things we plant, then the garden flourishes in this little metaphor, right? So I guess, like the weeds could be a parallel for the storm, right? That inescapability of God's will. He's going to do with the garden as he pleases and you know he'll allow whatever he wants to happen to happen. And I can, you know. It made me stop and wonder if the garden's full of weeds. If your life is full of weeds, kind of like the storm, right, does it show your life is full of sin? Or because God doesn't make sin in your life, right? He's not.
Speaker 1:No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't create sin, no.
Speaker 2:It's not. Yeah, god does not make sin, but he allows things. So maybe the weedy garden is it like a? Does it show a lack of effort or a lack of cooperation? Or what does it show when our lives are full of difficulties or whatever? So I don't know. Like I was, I kept thinking about it because, like you know, some some gardens well like for for me it's.
Speaker 2:I guess something that I I think of is is I know that expectations are are pretty challenging for me. I heard somebody say once expectations are like preconceived prejudices, right, like if you're going to go to Six Flags or something, an amusement park, and you're like this is gonna be the best day ever, and you get there and it's not the best day ever. Was the trip worthwhile? Did you still have a good time, or is it ruined because you had these expectations of something that didn't come to be Right, something less than your expectations. So you're prejudiced against anything that could be because you're expecting something very particular, and I can't remember where I got that from, but that's always stuck with me. And so then I think about the garden. We might have an expectation of what the garden should be, what our lives should be, and that could probably be problematic because there's a bunch of different types of gardens, right. There's like rock gardens and cactus gardens and vegetable gardens and whatever right, there's a bunch of different types of gardens, right. There's like rock gardens and cactus gardens and vegetable gardens and whatever right, there's a bunch of different types of gardens. And so if you have an expectation of something and maybe you're not open to what could be right, and maybe that's like we're not open to what God wills for us because we're looking for something very specific, it could stop us from cooperating with God to work towards, I don't know, cultivating this garden.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, all of that, all of that, all of that Thinking about the storms and thinking about the gardens and stuff, about the storms and thinking about the gardens and stuff, kind of to you, I want to know, like, what happens? What do you do when your life is I don't want to necessarily say it's not going according to plan, but some people just have really rough lives right All throughout the world. There's all sorts of crazy situations out there and so, like what, if somebody is struggling because they're trying to cooperate with God and it's there's no garden, it is nothing, but weeds their entire life, right? And maybe this kind of goes to martyrs, which is why I was thinking about you. Like, how do you well, because you love the martyrs, right? So like, how do you Like, how do you well, because you love the martyrs, right?
Speaker 2:So like, how do you? What would you say to somebody who's just like Father, like my life? I don't know how to say it. It sucks Like I can't. Nothing ever goes right. I try to cooperate with God, I try and listen to God, I try and do what he wants, but it's like all he wants is for me to suffer or struggle or whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 1:What do you say to that? Well, you've laid out many, many, many, many ideas in this short section here. One, getting back to Bishop Barron's I haven't seen the YouTube video that you've posted, so I'll have to do that afterwards yeah, one is that you know, again, the idea of storms, right? So, again, there's lots of things going on here. So, taking that, you know, analyzing or trying to find, you know, is the storm an allegory for something and what is the allegory?
Speaker 1:And so Bishop Barron is proposing, then, that the allegory may be pointing to the fact that there is a storm because I am resisting God's will or I'm avoiding God's will, right? Is that a point? Yeah, that is his presentation. Well, I don't know From what you tell me. Then, that is the presentation, right, that storms arise when we resist. I can agree with that to a point again. So, again, I don't know what he's analyzing. I don't know what his point is because I haven't seen the YouTube. But looking at that allegory of Jonah and Jonah's resisting God's will, running away from his vocation, running away from what God has asked of him, and that because of this there is a storm that happens and he winds up getting cast overboard, he says I'm the cause for this.
Speaker 1:And so then the sailors all get together and they throw him overboard and they ask forgiveness from the deities because they're not Israelites, but they ask the gods forgiveness as they throw them overboard because they want to save themselves. So, anyway, okay, the storm can represent not just difficulties because I'm resisting God's will. The storm could be a vehicle working towards God's will being accomplished, because Jonah does wind up going to Nineveh and he does wind up preaching to the Ninevites in spite of himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think he says something about that too, where it's like his corrective measure as well.
Speaker 1:Right. So it is his way of it's God's way, or the sacred author's way of proposing that God's will, god's word, god's desire is going to be accomplished. Then the next question is, again is a matter of do I run away from God's will? Because I'm afraid so, jonah. The reason Jonah ran away from God's will because I'm afraid. I'm afraid so Jonah. The reason Jonah ran away from God's will is because Jonah did not want the Ninevites to be forgiven. That's why he didn't want to go preach. He wanted the Ninevites to be destroyed.
Speaker 2:Doesn't he get all grumpy too at the end? Because?
Speaker 1:they repent like real quick. Yeah, he gets upset about that. So, anyway, there is that bias there that's been presented as part of the lesson, but I think sometimes, hearing God's voice, this is the part of the discernment. Then that has to enter into the life of the person, right? Then that has to enter into the life of the person, right, is it God's voice?
Speaker 1:that I hear, or am I mistaken Is what I believe to be God's voice, actually God's voice. And then how do I enter into that discernment to find that it is truly God's voice? And then, what is God's will in this right? What is it that God is asking of me? So, part of the what I want to avoid is the idea of associating storm or difficulty with sin, because that's not true. We live in a broken world, which is a call, you know, because of Adam and Eve, because of the fall. We do live in a broken world, but because I have a difficult life doesn't mean that my life is sinful. Or if I have an easy life doesn't mean that my life is blessed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's kind of a very Old Testament Jewish kind of concept, right, like if you hadn't sinned, then this would not have happened to you, you wouldn't be blind or lame or whatever.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah. So they even ask Jesus. Is it this man's fault or his parents' fault that he was born blind or whatever right.
Speaker 1:So we don't want to think of it that way. But what does happen and sometimes I have run across this is that some people have a hard time with their life, whatever suffering it is, and again it's I don't know, I can't speak about it because everybody, everyone's experience of pain and suffering is different from everyone else's, so I can't speak to that, to that. But I have run across individuals who believe that their life should be easier because they believe, or their life should be easier because they pray, or their life should be easier because they go to church, right, and I don't know where that comes from. I don't know where that idea comes from. I've never run across. I mean that's not scriptural. I mean I don't know where that comes from, that idea Cultural somewhere, I'm sure it's from some culture, but the idea that, like I said before, we need to avoid the concept or the understanding that a difficulty equals punishment or consequence.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just the brokenness of the world, and sometimes it's because I've made a wrong decision or I've made a poor judgment, or I haven't been able to discern very well, and not out of malice, but I've made a mistake and I suffer the consequences of that. So there's that to take into consideration, right, and the idea that, again going back to this idea of the storm in Jonah, it is corrective and in Jonah it is a way in which God, or the author, the sacred author, is trying to communicate to us that eventually God's will is brought to completion. Now I have to be careful when we take that allegory and try to apply it to our lives. We have to be very careful about that as well, because there's a lot of different variables that come into play.
Speaker 1:One am I a believer? Two, what is my relationship with God? Three, do I pray? Do I have a real interior life? Am I capable of considering these things right? And, as I said before, just because our life is difficult doesn't necessarily mean that we're separated from God. For example, the whole idea of Lazarus and the rich man. So Lazarus is the one that goes to rest in the bosom of Abraham, which is our equivalent to heaven. Right, but he was rich and he had nothing to eat and he was was living in the streets and the dogs were licking him.
Speaker 1:But he winds up being justified or saved or redeemed. And the rich man who had everything and dressed in purple and everything, he winds up being in Gehenna or hell, okay, so again.
Speaker 1:So those are things. Gehenna or hell, Okay, so again. So those are things. We have to be really careful, you know, about how we state things or understand things. It is very complicated because there's so many multiple variables in each person's lives, right? So it's kind of hard to have a hard and fast rule of interpretation, right, have a hard and fast rule of interpretation, right. And when it comes to the question of hearing God's voice, okay, again, many variables. So you have the scriptures, you have the life, an example of Jesus Christ, and that is God's voice. Do I need to have an extraordinary phenomenon or locution? No Reason, using reason and using the revelation that has been handed on to us, that should be enough to guide my life.
Speaker 2:How should being a contemplative man, right, how should people approach contemplating all these things? Because what I hear from you, and obviously appropriately, is caution, caution, caution, patience, prayer, caution, right, like, don't start just assuming things, Don't think you know exactly what it is that's going on. So how should somebody even dare to approach these kinds of concepts or wanting to understand what God wants for them or their vocation, and all that Right, what God wants for them or their vocation, and all that Right?
Speaker 1:So I think, going back to one of the things that you mentioned earlier then was about the expectation. Is my expectation based on reason and something that is executable in my life, right? So you were using the idea of the garden, were using the idea of the garden. So, yeah, I want to have a garden of cactus and a desert garden, but I'm living in Hawaii, okay, so everything's going to drown and everything's going to rot right.
Speaker 1:Or I want to have a tropical garden, but I'm living in the desert. Well, that's not going to work. It's a matter of you know what is your expectation. Is your expectation reasonable and is my expectation informed by tradition and teaching of the church? I think that has a lot to do with keeping to the right track, right, or understanding what our journey is, as our journey unfolds. And part of it, too, is that sometimes it's a matter of we are not aware of something, or we're not aware of our own journey or our own prejudices and biases, until you know we're one smack, smack up against them, or they smack us on the side of the head and you're like oh, I didn't even consider that, that was not even part of the horizon. That's a lot I need to recalibrate. That's part of it too. Again, as I said, it's very complicated In terms of being able to do this.
Speaker 1:Going back to the idea of contemplation, contemplation is a capacity for introspection and being objective about the self. So is there a level of objectivity of myself? Is there a? Do I take time to wonder about things? Do I take time to wonder about things? Do I take time to ponder things out, to consider the consequences of things. Is there an ability to pause? Because what happens is a lot of times, and this happens a lot in the spiritual life.
Speaker 1:The spiritual life, yeah people take, the people take, you know, take the ball and run and run and like, wait a minute, that's the wrong direction, that's not what the plan was, that's not what god asked. So people presume that they know what the logical next step is, and that's not necessarily true. So this whole idea, then, of of hearing and part of it is again is it informed? Is it understandable? Is it part of the tradition? Am I willing to consider things outside of my particular way of thinking things? Am I willing to be objective about my own stance? Am I willing to be educated? Am I willing to be educated Right? Am I willing to be formed? And that's the most important thing is, am I, am I educable? Am I, am I capable of receiving information and using it to adjust and correct my own journey or my own decision-making?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that that makes me think about excuse me. So that makes me think about excuse me. You and many religious orders, maybe even all religious orders I'm not sure you have vows of poverty, right so you're other than you know. Jesus, he loves the poor kind of thing. Right, that they hold this special place in the kingdom. But there are, I know there are religious orders where they take on extra hardships, right, so that how does taking on hardships, how does accepting the cross, help us to grow or to cooperate with God?
Speaker 1:Okay, there can be aberrations of that, there can be pathological aberrations of that which are not healthy, and not what?
Speaker 1:the church intends. But the healthy understanding of that, the healthy root of that, is the consideration of the fact that all things come to an end, right, the glory of this world is passing, as Paul says, that there is a temporal order, and then there's the spiritual order that is eternal, and so part of the hardship is it is a way in which the person continuously reminds themselves that this is, one, it is a broken world, and two, it's in need of redemption, and three, that it's going to come to an end. We talked about the four last things not too long ago, and so part of the hardship is that it keeps the person aware, or should keep the, I should say it should keep the person aware of the temporality of things and how all things come to an end, right, and that's part of that growth in detachment, so that I'm not continuously driven by the pleasure principle, right, and so I become a master of my passions or my pleasures, and they don't master me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that reminds me. Well, yeah, it makes me think one thing real quick. It's like it doesn't mean like hardships being something that are helpful or whatever. It doesn't mean okay, go drive nails through your hands, so you are more appreciative like don't go hurt yourself, right?
Speaker 1:yeah?
Speaker 2:um, but then what? That? What you had just said, being master over the things it? What did you said something once about if you're truly free, then it doesn't matter your situation or circumstance, right, you could be in prison, but if you're truly free.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nobody can take your dignity. Yeah, so if you're truly free right, it doesn't matter where you find yourself, whether you're in prison or not, or whether you're enslaved or not. If you're truly free interiorly, then you carry yourself with dignity and the spirit cannot be enslaved.
Speaker 2:Can you, is it possible to fully be free outside of Jesus, or is it just like a shade of that true freedom?
Speaker 1:As a believer, I would have to say that the only real, true freedom is found in Christ right, because he is the son of the Father and his desire for us is that we enter into the liberty or the freedom of the sons of God. So there's a freedom that comes with that. Outside of that, I don't know, there can be philosophical approaches that lead you to some sort of freedom. For example, in the philosophy of Buddhism, the whole idea of freedom is that basically, you know, the world is a lie, the world is an illusion, temporal reality is an illusion, and basically for the Buddhist to free themselves from the cycle of reincarnation, that's freedom. Freedom is to come.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure exactly if that means annihilation or not, that I cease to exist, but I think that's what it means, because for the Buddhists, they believe in reincarnation, and so you're freed from the reincarnations once you reach enlightenment, and that's the freedom you want, to free yourself from the material world. But I don't know if that means the person ceases to exist, because then that would be freedom. So anyway, I mean there's different ways of approaching it. For us it'd be that the freedom that we're speaking of is to be fully humanely, human in relationship with the divine, because that is what we were created for. The freedom is the relationship with the divine, because that is what we were created for. The freedom is the relationship with the divine, because that was the original plan, that God intended for us is to live in communion, or that relationship with the divine. So that is the freedom. The freedom is to be who God has asked me to be. Okay, so if I'm yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's like to be Christ-like, to be made in God's image, to be His Son, to be what I was intended to be, not something else. Okay, so, as it starts to rain again, over here at least. So now you know, I'm, I'm me, I can be anybody I'm. I'm sitting in my backyard, I'm contemplating the storms in my life, I'm contemplating my weedy garden, like what should be the appropriate way for me to reflect and to take my time with these kinds of thoughts Versus what would be the, as you were saying, people get, they take the ball and run with it, they get all hasty. Like what would you advise for some, because not every? I'm lucky, one of my best friends is a priest, right, so I can go talk to you and I can get that spiritual direction. Not everybody has someone like that in their lives, so how should people try to approach it? I?
Speaker 1:think the healthy approach is for us, as believers, to pray for enlightenment and not give up on that enlightenment, not give up on that petition or that seeking to be better informed. Again, it's a journey and it's a process and we're becoming. We're in this journey of becoming who God is desiring us to be, this journey of becoming who God is desiring us to be, and there's hiccups along the road and you fall flat on your face along the road. The important thing is you do get up and keep going. But I think essentially it goes back to this idea of being educable. Am I open to learning? Open to learning? Do I seek enlightenment or do I seek information to help me be a better person? Do I seek information to help me make better choices? Looking at your metaphor, I'm looking at my garden and it's full of weeds. I'm going God, why is my garden full of weeds? And it's sort of like. And God goes like, because you haven't tended to it, because you haven't weeded it, because you haven't prepared it, because you didn't till it right or whatever right. And there is that work that is necessary in our part. Right, the whole part of you know.
Speaker 1:Inspiration and enlightenment is that we're capable of being self-corrective.
Speaker 1:So we make better choices, we make better decisions, we learn from our mistakes, we grow from that and make us, hopefully, better persons and more capable of loving as Christ desires us to love, with that unconditional love. So I mean that's the purpose of it. The purpose of it is not just to have a beautiful garden or something that is aesthetically pleasing, or to have a life that is not encumbered by problems or crises or storms. Right, it's a matter of understanding that I'm not alone in this journey. And so how do I take time to enter into this relationship with the Lord, reflect upon the richness and complexity of my life and be able to make decisions Again, they're not always going to be perfect and they're not always going to be right but make decisions towards a better life, and by that I mean a more humane, human life. It doesn't necessarily mean no problems, but what I mean by a better life is a life that is more an imitation of the example that's set before us, before Christ and the saints. Right that idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that you continue to reinforce the thought that we are, that there are corrective measures along the way. Right, because I can see a lot of people, especially maybe I'm young, and is God calling me to marriage, is he calling me to the priesthood, is he calling me to single life, like, what does he want? And I kind of get stuck in that analysis. Paralysis right, I'm afraid to act and make mistakes, but we shouldn't be afraid no because god's going to be with us, yeah, yeah, so, for example, you know.
Speaker 1:so jonas is like uh, god says I want you to go preach to the ninevites. And then johnny goes like no, I don't want to preach the ninevites because I know you're merciful and forgiving and patient and I don't want you to go preach to the Ninevites. And then Jody goes like no, I don't want to preach to the Ninevites because I know you're merciful and forgiving and patient and I don't want you to be merciful, forgiving and patient to them. So no, a hard pass. And then God goes like no, I want you to do this. So then there's the corrective measure of the storm plus the corrective measure of the whale, and then he finds himself at the shores of Nineveh.
Speaker 1:And this is the thing is even resisting and grumpy and being the whiny thing that he is. He goes ahead and he does it, and God's will is fulfilled. Nineveh is Because he goes ahead and he does it, and God's will is fulfilled. Nineveh is saved from its own sin.
Speaker 1:They convert, they put aside their sinfulness and even though Jonah is hacked, about it he's just absolutely apoplectic about it, like see, that's why I didn't want to come and preach to them, because I knew you'd forgive them. And he's just having the bitch fest with God.
Speaker 1:And then God very beautifully says but they don't know their right hand from their left I mean, they're children, they don't know, and his mercy is towards that ignorance, right. And so I think what we learn from it is again, is that God's will is continuously at work, and it's in the Scripture I think I forget I don't know if it's in the Psalms, somewhere in the Old Testament and I can't remember right now because I'm getting brain fog. Somewhere in the Old Testament and I can't remember right now because I'm getting brain fog. My word will not come back to me until it's fulfilled its purpose, right? Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Or is it one of the Isaiah prophecies? Maybe it is Isaiah.
Speaker 1:I think it might be Isaiah. And so, like, my word will not come back to me until it's fulfilled its purpose. Like, god's word is God's word and God's word is effective. It might take time because we get in the way or the brokenness of the world gets in the way, but god's word is effective and it's going to accomplish what it's meant to accomplish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what even in our own?
Speaker 1:and even in our own lives I mean even in our own lives it's going to accomplish what it's meant to accomplish. It just might take a long time because, yeah, I keep making stupid mistakes.
Speaker 2:It might even take your whole life, but I guess what a great adventure, right when?
Speaker 1:you when you see it that way it is. It is, it's, it is the adventure that the Holy Spirit leads you on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, cool, Thanks for uh. Thanks for helping me kind of weed my garden here and seeing what comes from this, I appreciate it. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:This was an unexpected topic, but okay, it's good.
Speaker 2:Well, everybody else, thanks for joining us and we will see you next time.
Speaker 1:God bless. Thank you, god bless.
